P1000 Clutches burnt up

[dale5740]

Well I'm sure it's difficult to get a baseline, with all the different mods, tires, riding styles, oils, accessories drawing juice, exhausts, air filters....ect...

they know exactly what the problem is regardless of tires and mods I'm sure!!!!!

 

[Admin]

 

[PioneerPete]

All the people with clutch issues. Im in florida, sugar sand and mud.No problems out of mine. I use low in sugar sand and mud, and it just goes. No issues. I drive easy and hard. Plan my line. Up hill low gear. I still think it is a factory build issue.

yeah, I would consider some of the issues (loose grounds) to be build issues, and some of the clutch issues may have resulted from poor shifting due to the bad ground. that being said, I'm not convinced that the reverse gearing isn't too high and is contributing to the 1/3/5/R clutch failures.
at the end of the day, everyone has an opinion, and we know what they say about opinions...
so, I'll say it again, IMHO Honda needs to get their talking points out to the dealers so folks can have some confidence that it won't happen to them, or at the very least to dampen some of the rampant speculation and misinformation.

 

[dezs1775]

yeah, I would consider some of the issues (loose grounds) to be build issues, and some of the clutch issues may have resulted from poor shifting due to the bad ground. that being said, I'm not convinced that the reverse gearing isn't too high and is contributing to the 1/3/5/R clutch failures.
at the end of the day, everyone has an opinion, and we know what they say about opinions...
so, I'll say it again, IMHO Honda needs to get their talking points out to the dealers so folks can have some confidence that it won't happen to them, or at the very least to dampen some of the rampant speculation and misinformation.

What are they trying to do in reverse? pull some one out of the mud? Seems ok to me. And this is my third sxs. So far the best one.

 

[TimCan13]

I hear people saying that honda says the clutches are a wear item? This is not true! If so there would be zero warranty on a machine. Bearings are wear items, piston rings are wear item, valve guides are wear items. The clutch packs are a internal item just like a piston. I think someone confused there polaris external clutch with a honda! Lol...

 

[ohanacreek]

yeah, I would consider some of the issues (loose grounds) to be build issues, and some of the clutch issues may have resulted from poor shifting due to the bad ground. that being said, I'm not convinced that the reverse gearing isn't too high and is contributing to the 1/3/5/R clutch failures.
at the end of the day, everyone has an opinion, and we know what they say about opinions...
so, I'll say it again, IMHO Honda needs to get their talking points out to the dealers so folks can have some confidence that it won't happen to them, or at the very least to dampen some of the rampant speculation and misinformation.

There's an issue of some sort but it would be unwise to guess at the actual problem and spew out a few talking points just to have something to say.

When any machine that is designed and tested for certain boundaries/specifications is used outside of those boundaries/specifications it fails.

Sometimes there is a built in OS factor. Example a a circuit will be derated for certain environments or usages and requires smaller amperage breaker than the wire in perfect conditions can handle.

These are not a 70's model car with a 5 wire electrical system. They are as complicated as a full size car and have many, many, many lines of computer code.

Something is happening and while Honda seems to be honoring warranty claims, with new parts no matter if they scavenge from a dealers unit, I'm not sure they've figured out what the issue is in the small number of cases.

That seems to be another problem, statistics require large samples to be able to accurately provide information. The smaller the sample the larger the standard deviation from the mean. The more data points you have associated with a problem the better you can narrow it down to what the problem is.

Example it's likes saying "My truck won't start!"

You didn't provide other basic diagnostic information: Fuel level, battery voltage, is it underwater, did it burn completely to the ground, did you have it crushed, is it parked on them moon?

I know those are outlandish examples BUT all of those things could cause your truck not to start, or it could be a conflict in two values the computer is getting, and not allowing it to start.

All that to say, I'll wager it's going to take more time and issues before we as the end user find out what the issue is, because I'll wager a dollar Honda isn't sure yet.

 

[P1k5d_rg]

Over the weekend I had a intake boot come off FYI. And the slipping clutch didn't hesitate when I drug a ranger crew and high lifter ranger home.

 

[walexa07]

Over the weekend I had a intake boot come off FYI. And the slipping clutch didn't hesitate when I drug a ranger crew and high lifter ranger home.

Not intending to ask a dumb-sounding question, but where was the intake boot that came off? Upstream/downstream of air filter? Actually on the intake of the engine? How did you know it came loose (running rough, different sound)?

Thanks,

Waylan

 

[HotRodLincoln]

I'm in market, sold my 14 xxc maverick last year and miss it. I had a rzr before that. I was gung ho on the new defender and then stumbled upon the pioneer 1000-5, I love the seating set-up...then I stumbled on the clutch issue. I do own a rancher with ES and had a recon es before that so I'm familiar with the electric shift and I like it. This pioneer system is more automated but similar. I am now very concerned and plan to wait for purchase till this shakes out. Forget backing up a steep hill....how about backing out of a mudhole, or rocking it back and forth to unstuck? I could see the clutch pack burning up right away in even a small mudhole. This is BS.
BTW, my recon es had shifting issues @ 2~3 years old and then found it had a recall on the issue.

 

[tundraman]

My concern on the clutches is longevity. A few bikes burning them up right away tells me that's an assembly issue. Will these clutches hold up for 10 or 20 thousand miles is the question. I am waiting to see how things are going once these bikes get some miles on them. My 700 has held up well after over 2 years.

 

[walexa07]

I'd like to see a chart showing the sales volumes from when the P1000 was first available through today, and for it to show problems as reported on this forum. I think with the warmer weather hitting that the sales numbers have to be steadily increasing, but the volume of clutch problems seems to have slowed down. If this is the case it seems the issue isn't design flaw.

Waylan

 

[ohanacreek]

I'd like to see a chart showing the sales volumes from when the P1000 was first available through today, and for it to show problems as reported on this forum. I think with the warmer weather hitting that the sales numbers have to be steadily increasing, but the volume of clutch problems seems to have slowed down. If this is the case it seems the issue isn't design flaw.

Waylan

Maybe s but I also could have something to do with temps or owners being more cautious of what modifications they make or fluids they use, I know I won't be using anything other than what's specd in the owners manual.

 

[walexa07]

I'm not doing a single thing other than what I normally would do - if anything I am being a bit harder on the unit because of the reported clutch issues. It's under warranty - if there's a design flaw or faulty part I want it to show up now. I am, however, sticking to the recommended factory fluids in the engine/transmission. I would doubt that most new owners even know about the issue and hence would not treat the machine any different than they originally intended.

I also think it's interesting that I've not seen where anyone has had an issue after a unit was repaired with a new clutch. I wonder if everyone subscribed to this thread that has had a clutch replaced could give us an update with how many miles since replaced and if there have been any additional issues/problems?

Waylan

 

[Buckrocker]

I'm not doing a single thing other than what I normally would do - if anything I am being a bit harder on the unit because of the reported clutch issues. It's under warranty - if there's a design flaw or faulty part I want it to show up now. I am, however, sticking to the recommended factory fluids in the engine/transmission. I would doubt that most new owners even know about the issue and hence would not treat the machine any different than they originally intended.

I also think it's interesting that I've not seen where anyone has had an issue after a unit was repaired with a new clutch. I wonder if everyone subscribed to this thread that has had a clutch replaced could give us an update with how many miles since replaced and if there have been any additional issues/problems?

Waylan

On page 42 is a good chart with that information. I think several members may be waiting on parts.

 

[JACKAL]

On page 42 is a good chart with that information. I think several members may be waiting on parts.

Here is an update on the status of everyone's machine as of 4/5/16. Only 3 units waiting on parts, that have been taken in for warranty service no update on @Rippinnrarrin since 3/16. So far 6 units had clutch components replaced plus the 3 waiting on the parts for 9 total which isn't all that many considering the numbers that have been sold.

 

[PioneerPete]

There's an issue of some sort but it would be unwise to guess at the actual problem and spew out a few talking points just to have something to say.

Something is happening and while Honda seems to be honoring warranty claims, with new parts no matter if they scavenge from a dealers unit, I'm not sure they've figured out what the issue is in the small number of cases.

That seems to be another problem, statistics require large samples to be able to accurately provide information. The smaller the sample the larger the standard deviation from the mean. The more data points you have associated with a problem the better you can narrow it down to what the problem is.

Example it's likes saying "My truck won't start!"

All that to say, I'll wager it's going to take more time and issues before we as the end user find out what the issue is, because I'll wager a dollar Honda isn't sure yet.

I don't necessarily disagree with you... they may not yet fully understand the problem(s), and I'm not suggesting that they do.
Talking points or a statement doesn't require that the problem be fully understood and solved. A simple acknowledgement of the issue, and that they're looking into it. And maybe a statement indicating that it is indeed covered under warranty up to a certain number of miles.
And on the flip side, I'd take the dollar bet... (=

 

[PioneerPete]

Here is an update on the status of everyone's machine as of 4/5/16. Only 3 units waiting on parts, that have been taken in for warranty service no update on @Rippinnrarrin since 3/16. So far 6 units had clutch components replaced plus the 3 waiting on the parts for 9 total which isn't all that many considering the numbers that have been sold.
View attachment 13050

do you have insights into the overall sales numbers?

 

[JACKAL]

do you have insights into the overall sales numbers?

No I have nothing official to go by. My best guess would be somewhere around 5000 units, with nothing to go by but VIN#'s vs. build dates.

 

[P1k5d_rg]

Not intending to ask a dumb-sounding question, but where was the intake boot that came off? Upstream/downstream of air filter? Actually on the intake of the engine? How did you know it came loose (running rough, different sound)?

Thanks,

Waylan

It died while I was playing in water (shallow) it was the intake boot for the front cylinder between the motor and primary air filter. I didn't have the Allen wrench to check the air filter either

 

[jguillot]

Here is an update on the status of everyone's machine as of 4/5/16. Only 3 units waiting on parts, that have been taken in for warranty service no update on @Rippinnrarrin since 3/16. So far 6 units had clutch components replaced plus the 3 waiting on the parts for 9 total which isn't all that many considering the numbers that have been sold.
View attachment 13050

To update the chart. I ran mine about another 30 miles after the "reset" and the 1,3,5,R Clutch is slipping worse than ever. Unfortunately now the Hattiesburg dealership has a minimum of 3 week line waiting to look at anything. This really pisses me off because now I'll have to tie it up for at least another month.

 

[Stauvo]

To update the chart. I ran mine about another 30 miles after the "reset" and the 1,3,5,R Clutch is slipping worse than ever. Unfortunately now the Hattiesburg dealership has a minimum of 3 week line waiting to look at anything. This really pisses me off because now I'll have to tie it up for at least another month.

Awe man that sucks! I was hoping you and the rest would have new parts by the time the big weekend get togeather.