P1000 Clutches burnt up

[hondabob]

Good recording showing extra rpm. Mine has over 2,000 miles and smooth shifting in all gears and at the same rpm. Mine is a 3 seat frame #24. It could be a bad clutch or something goofy going on. The known good ECU is a good test but I like to test the suspected bad ECU in the other machine to verify the shifting is the same in all gears. Replacing the clutch may be the next step. Keep us updated on the fix.

 

[Admin]

 

[hondabob]

Not sure but I think 1st, 3rd, 5th, and reverse are on the same clutch. With the higher reverse gear its easier for the clutch running the reverse gear to fail. I expect Honda will replace both clutches and compare them. Both clutches are the same part number. I'm careful in reverse with mine and the slight shedder I had in reverse when new is gone now with over 2,000 miles. I would really like a much lower reverse gear plus a lower low range gear too. I'm running 28 inch tires now for the last 1,000 miles and always stay with the stock tire size or one size larger especially with my belt drive UTV's. This is my 10th UTV and I just bought the Yamaha YXZ. Yamaha has a lot of clutch failures but it appears to be from slipping it at 6,000 to 10,000 rpm. A much lower 1st gear would help and I expect the 2017 models will include a low geared one.

 

[itsleo]

So it's back at the shop now. Since it wasn't repaired the first time? I'm wondering if I didn't have a ground issue being it stopped slipping.

Where is the ground located that is being cleaned or checked?

That the problem... I asked the tech to show me the ground and felt like they were starting to give me the run around. Telling me it way deep behind all the plastics. Well no s*** dip weed!

I bought me a service manual tonight...thanks hondasxs for the link.

I'm not looking to sell. If this is the only major concern on a 1st year product that is not bad at all. Honda will fix it. I've seen way worse.

 

[itsleo]

Holy crap itsleo

Thats exactly what mine is doing. Only thing is mine is doing it worse. Took it to the dealer i bought it from this past monday. They called today (sat) and said come get it. Its good to go. Said they all road it around and couldnt get it to slip. So i went up there. Got kinda upset with them. They then finally said they would call honda tuesday to see about going into the clutches to see if one was bad. Getting a big run around. Makes me want trade it in.

Get your dealer to take you for a ride in a new pioneer and record it with your phone. Compare yours to the new pioneer with them so they can hear the differance. Sounds to me like your dealer may be afraid (lazy.. it is warranty) of working on it. I had my dealer call tech support on there speaker intercom so I could hear what was going on. Tech support told my dealer to check the line pressures and my dealer had no clues. And that may be that they don't deal with these tranny's much.

 

[jguillot]

My buddy had a 3 seater, mine is a 5D. We showed the mechanic how mine reved up 2000 rpm's going into 1,3,5,R, We were discussing with a mechanic that it possibly coud be differences in the two and the 5 seater clutching differently. For the record, I don't buy into that.

Here is a safety issue for the Honda Attorneys to think about: The 1st gear slippage caused shuttering in 1st gear, low, manual. My ramps were properly secure and the bike started shuttering and pushed the ramp from under the tire.

All is well, I had the bike in 4 lock, so I was able to drive it up the rest of the way thanks to my step bumper. I have since, built steel ramps that secure into fabricated channels on the back of the bed. This could have been a lot worse.

Lots of arguments can be made here and mods can be made to accommodate difficiencies but safety may become and issue at some point.

Someone mentioned sticking to facts back in the thread. I.e. driving experience, conditions etc, so feel free to ask away. I'm not mad at Honda. Contrary, I think they're the best.

Still love my P1K more than any other bike though.

 

[wilson111]

I think is crazy to say it's driver error... The manual does say not to hold still on an incline with the acceleration pedal BUT I'm sure it has a tolerance level. Meaning your not supposed to do this but it shouldn't make the clutch fail unless it's for excessive amounts of time. Seeing how several people have had the issue I seriously doubt they all have abused their machine to that extent. I haven't had any clutch issues yet and have done some pretty crazy things with mine....stuck in creek with sand over front tire and you could tell it was having to use some power to turn the tires, climbing obstacles that had tires bound pretty good. There is obvious variations in clutch failures and I think there is probably a factory issue. I plan to continue pushing mine and if I have a failure then I will be using the factory warranty. Also I don't think it should even be a thought that these failures won't be covered under warranty, unless you have a lift and extremely oversized tires....I mean it is supposed to be built for off-road use which is not driving on completely flat/dry land.

 

[JACKAL]

CAUTION
The following procedures are for reference use only and are in no way an endorsement for violating the ramp manufacturers Cautions & Warnings


WARNING
Danger of serious personal injury exists. Serious personal injury can occur when using a loading ramp.
· Never drive a SXS up an unsecured loading ramp.
· Always attach safety chains & straps even if not provided.
· Make sure the safety chains / straps are properly adjusted for length to prevent kick back of the loading ramp.


OK… With the obligatory warnings out of the way… We know if you are not lucky enough to live next to a riding area or have a trailer, then you most likely transport your SXS with a truck or trailer and you use a loading ramp. We also know you drive your SXS up loading ramps. And, we know of people who have been injured and even killed by using a loading ramp improperly. So, if you are going to drive your SXS up a ramp you should know how to do it safely!

RAMP CONSTRUCTION

Metal loading ramps generally can be found in two materials, steel and aluminum. Most styles are either bi-fold or tri-fold. We have found the aluminum tri-folds 64" wide are the easiest to handle. All commercial loading ramps are load rated. Choose a ramp with a load rating of at least 1500lbs. If you have a heavy-weight SXS and drive it up the ramp and you don’t happen to be a 5ft.2in. SYT (sweet young thing) then consider a 2000 lb. load rating.

There are two basic construction types for these ramps, diamond mesh and rungs. If you plan on loading something like a riding lawnmower besides your SXS, then go with mesh. The smaller lawnmower tires fall into the space between the rungs and create a bumpy load and unload. However the rung-style loading ramp provides greater traction to a SXS tire if the ramp angle is steep or the conditions are wet.


With these SXS being so expensive it make no sense to cheap out on loading ramps not to mention unsafe. I highly recommend these, 90" long x 64" wide 2100 lbs. load rating and folds to only 22" wide fits between the wheels underneath a P500 or P1000 with ease even in a pickup bed. even has an attached tie-down to secure the ramp to the truck or rear of the trailer so it cannot kick out on you.

RevArc HD UTV Ramp | ATV | Rocky Mountain ATV/MC

72" long ramp pictured with proper attachment of securing strap.

 

[aquatic1998]

To people with the clutch issues, does it do it all the time or hit and miss, ill be cruising down the trail and the oil light comes on and it acts as its falling out of gear. Talked to the dealer about it and they mentioned the ground issues so I took them all apart and cleaned and greased them with the same result . It seems electrical to me but not sure what it could be . When I first bought it I took every plug connection apart and dielectric greased everything. I guess I'll be taking it to the dealer tomorrow .

 

[Serial_Fordicator]

To people with the clutch issues, does it do it all the time or hit and miss, ill be cruising down the trail and the oil light comes on and it acts as its falling out of gear. Talked to the dealer about it and they mentioned the ground issues so I took them all apart and cleaned and greased them with the same result . It seems electrical to me but not sure what it could be . When I first bought it I took every plug connection apart and dielectric greased everything. I guess I'll be taking it to the dealer tomorrow .

Mine was high centered and spinning all 4 tires (low stress almost like spinning on jacks) and mine seemed like it was trying to go in and out of gear. I turned it off to rehook a winch, restarted, and my oil light was on. I knew it had plenty of oil because I checked levels prior to riding. I quickly turned it off and restarted with no light. That was the last straw. I went and traded it in 2 days later.
As I am not a pioneer owner anymore, I probably will fade out into the background and keep an eye on the developments. I truly wish all of you luck and hopes that honda fixes the problem.

 

[Serial_Fordicator]

I forgot to add before some brand loyal nutsack tries to tell me that I either 1) don't know how to drive it or 2) shouldn't be mudding in it that my machine was scrached all to hell from avoiding holes going through the woods and when I did go through them, it was few and far between.

 

[Hometeam]

I forgot to add before some brand loyal nutsack tries to tell me that I either 1) don't know how to drive it or 2) shouldn't be mudding in it that my machine was scrached all to hell from avoiding holes going through the woods and when I did go through them, it was few and far between.

Nope....not gonna tell you that you where driving it wrong...just really can't believe you got rid of it after one issue that has not even been figured out yet what the real issue is. It could be a assembly problem or bad batch of parts issue and you took the hit and got rid of it. Sorry but that is mind boggling to me! That means that there is no sxs that you can own, because Honda is have one issue while the others are endless!!! Good luck with your search for a better and absolutely problem free sxs! One of, if not the, all time toughest trucks on the market and has been built by many for off road and abuse is the Toyota pickup of the early 80's into the 90's and oh my goodness guess what the clutches were terribly weak from the factory, yes I have owned 2. You hardly put any size bigger tire on them without needing a clutch soon (not talking about putting tires on and driving around town). But the fact still remained that you could not stop them! I believe (and time will tell) that the Honda pioneer is the best on the market. Sure it might need a tweak here or there but it will keep going!! Soon there will be aftermarket stuff and these things will be made bullet proof (an up graded clutch is nothing if that's what is needed)! I'm not brand loyal but seriously look at all the issues and lack of factory warrentee of there problems on the other brands! That is why I choose the Honda and why I don't want to dick with every other freakin issue with the other brands. Thank you have a good day I have riding to do on the best sxs out there!!!)

 

[Roursjr]

I forgot to add before some brand loyal nutsack tries to tell me that I either 1) don't know how to drive it or 2) shouldn't be mudding in it that my machine was scrached all to hell from avoiding holes going through the woods and when I did go through them, it was few and far between.

So Serial Fordicator did Honda or the dealer ever get ur pioneer fixed for you? And if so what was the exact problem.

 

[Serial_Fordicator]

Nope....not gonna tell you that you where driving it wrong...just really can't believe you got rid of it after one issue that has not even been figured out yet what the real issue is. It could be a assembly problem or bad batch of parts issue and you took the hit and got rid of it. Sorry but that is mind boggling to me! That means that there is no sxs that you can own, because Honda is have one issue while the others are endless!!! Good luck with your search for a better and absolutely problem free sxs! One of, if not the, all time toughest trucks on the market and has been built by many for off road and abuse is the Toyota pickup of the early 80's into the 90's and oh my goodness guess what the clutches were terribly weak from the factory, yes I have owned 2. You hardly put any size bigger tire on them without needing a clutch soon (not talking about putting tires on and driving around town). But the fact still remained that you could not stop them! I believe (and time will tell) that the Honda pioneer is the best on the market. Sure it might need a tweak here or there but it will keep going!! Soon there will be aftermarket stuff and these things will be made bullet proof (an up graded clutch is nothing if that's what is needed)! I'm not brand loyal but seriously look at all the issues and lack of factory warrentee of there problems on the other brands! That is why I choose the Honda and why I don't want to dick with every other freakin issue with the other brands. Thank you have a good day I have riding to do on the best sxs out there!!!)

I don't ever expect to have a problem free anything. Anything man made has issues. Unfortunately, the clutch issues aren't like a broke axle. You cant just break it down without having serious know how about how to fix it.

I had a can am outlander that was broke down with electronic issues since I bought it. I wont have anything that sits in a dealers shop for warranty work more than in my garage. I don't care who it's made by. If my new one becomes problematic, I'll rid myself of it also. That is the beauty of choice and other brands.

 

[Plumber32]

I don't ever expect to have a problem free anything. Anything man made has issues. Unfortunately, the clutch issues aren't like a broke axle. You cant just break it down without having serious know how about how to fix it.

I had a can am outlander that was broke down with electronic issues since I bought it. I wont have anything that sits in a dealers shop for warranty work more than in my garage. I don't care who it's made by. If my new one becomes problematic, I'll rid myself of it also. That is the beauty of choice and other brands.

What did you get?

 

[Serial_Fordicator]

What did you get?

Polaris ranger highlifter edition.
Reason: stronger reverse chain, lower geared trans, 1000 front diff, snorkled. Now,I probably will never need a snorkel, but I always try to add them for insurance. I like being able to crawl through wooded trails.

 

[Plumber32]

Polaris ranger highlifter edition.
Reason: stronger reverse chain, lower geared trans, 1000 front diff, snorkled. Now,I probably will never need a snorkel, but I always try to add them for insurance. I like being able to crawl through wooded trails.

I saw a couple of those at windrock. Very nice! Pretty much set up for rock crawling with knob by tires.

 

[Scooterchris]

Serial, I went and looked yesterday at the highlifter ranger or the rzr yesterday . Might be looking to trade aswell.

My reasoning comes from seeing my friend 700 Yamaha viking stuck in the same type of mud hole for 2 hours. At one point saying " oh man I think I need to let it cool down for a little bit" cause the temp light was on and it was smoking. And I was stuck for 15 minutes. Wasn't near as hard on mine and like I said when we were ready to go again he's riding fine and I'm slipping

Sounds like honda should of rethought the idea of using the dct in a machine this and that they knew was gonna be used hill climbing and in the mud.

I'm gonna give it one more chance when I get it back whether it's got a new clutch in it or isn't slipping with the old clutch. I'm gonna ride it like I normally do with respect and if something happens it's gone

 

[JACKAL]

Sorry if anyone gets their panties in a wad.... I've been riding dirt bikes and 4 wheeler since my teens. I'm now 46 so I don't believe it my riding ability. I believe honda needs to build a stronger clutch. I live in Florida with NO HILLS, BUT WE HAVE LOTS OF SAND AND WATER.

I recorded mine before taking in to the dealer for the second time in a weeks. 1st time they told me it was a ground problem!! Brought it home and this is what I recorded. It's not slipping bad enough to leave someone high and dry in the trails but it's not shifting correct.

It has to rev up to about 3000 rpm's to start moving. Then it slides into 3rd and 5th gear at about 1000 - 1500 rpm's more than the even gears. I also noticed my top speed dropped I could barely get it up to 60 mph.

I was playing with my P1K out on the road today and was able to replicate this exact same shifting anomaly, and was also able to make it stop in a high stress situation. It would not stop the delay of 3rd & 5th gear shifting & RPM jump consistently in a normal acceleration pace. I will explain.

First I drove it around for about 20 minutes letting everything get warmed up like it would be out normally riding. Then I made two slow accelerating runs like grandpa going to check the mail and it shifted through all six gears no hesitation or surprises. Did this once each in H & L range.

Second I did four runs, one each in H & L range runs accelerating at about 1/3rd and 2/3rd throttle (typical of recreational riding conditions) in every one of these four consecutive passes the P1K exhibited the same delayed shift and RPM spike as depicted in @itsleo video. What I experienced was almost exactly like the video except at the 2/3 throttle acceleration the delay was less pronounced but was still observed.

Third I did four runs two each in H & L literally from a stand still flooring it WFO through all six gears until it was ready to bounce off the rev / speed limiter in 6th gear. In every one of those four runs under the highest stress condition there was absolutely no hesitation in 3rd and 5th gear shifting it was a consistent cadence and the RPM was coupled with linear acceleration through every shift in every gear.

This leads me to believe the issue is not so much with the clutches but the computer programming reading speed and throttle position. If the actual clutch independent from being controlled by the computer were the weak link when you hammer it WFO the motor RPM should scream while the clutch slips in the offending gears, rather than engage solid and take off like a rocket. I believe the issue is with the programming of the ECU reading the RPM, ground speed, & throttle position to determine when/how to shift and in the middle throttle range is inducing some delayed shift or clutch lockup in the 3rd and 5th gears especially. No other explanation makes sense to me, because the harder you push it the worse the machine should falter and it does almost exactly the opposite from what I am seeing.

The above has nothing to do with the OP and the other two machines that have had some type of clutch issues where it was a constant slippage until nearly full failure.

 

[Stauvo]

Hi Jackal,
Its remarkable that you could duplicate the problem.
Will you be visiting with your dealer about this possible electronic gremlin you discovered or wait and give it some time/miles?

 

[JACKAL]

Hi Jackal,
Its remarkable that you could duplicate the problem.
Will you be visiting with your dealer about this possible electronic gremlin you discovered or wait and give it some time/miles?

I am going to wait and see (briefly) if it doesn't get worse I will see how it performs all week at the Group Ride in April 8 & 9th, If I still have reservations / concerns I will leave it with the dealership in Chattanooga, TN where I bought it. What confuses me is the harder I seemingly push it the more normal it acts and everything common sense tells me if something "mechanical" was awry it would be just the opposite. I went through everything today looking for loose ground wires / bolts etc. and after 4 hours discovered nothing abnormal regarding assembly.