P1000 Clutches burnt up

[walexa07]

Sorry I don't know how to decode the VIN but mine is, 1HFVE042XG4000292

Interesting. In your VIN you have 042XG where I have 0461G. Wonder what the differences mean.......

Waylan

 

[Admin]

 

[jguillot]

If it's not ready, I'd pick it up and run it for the trip you had planned. I would not miss a trip, and I don't recall anyone saying theirs left them completely stranded. Are you planning to ride with others or alone? If with others just bring a rope?

Waylan

Thanks Waylan, I may do just that. We have a pretty big group out of Hattiesburg that all ride together. We were planning on Boggs and Boulders but we may stay local and ride Texas Flat and maybe some at Muddy Joes. Save the big trip for when it's 100%. I'm also patiently waiting for portal boxes to be released to fit my 32's.

 

[Stauvo]

37000 views and almost as many opinions. Honda is not going to issue anything to this forum, and it is highly unlikely they are going to say anything of substance to their dealers. This is a very very small problem, for only a few people.(sorry if you are one of them, but that is the truth) I am sure that Honda will fix whatever it is, and the new ones are going to have that fix, and eventually, if mine breaks, it will as well. Many people commenting on here seem to think this is a new thing, as if there hasn't ever been a Honda issue in the past or that a new vehicle has some sort of teething issues. Honda Goldwing frames cracked, and eventually they were all repaired, but it wasn't in the first three months of the issue being found. Ford F150's rear ends in 2010 where likely to grenade, and if you were lucky, they fixed it under warranty, if you were not.... I am not thrilled that there MIGHT be an issue with my clutches, but NOT all are failing, although some are. I think there are a LOT fewer than what Yamaha ran into with the YXZ, and I haven't heard of a recall there either.

Keep calm, drive it like you want. If you really want a new clutch before they have any available hold your machine on a hill with the gas. Anything can be broken, and most everything will be sooner or later.

I respectfully disagree

I say this because while searching for info for Pioneers, it led me here. Just like the people experiencing mechanical issues. Their search for info leads here because this is where it's at! The buzz is right here at Honda SxS Club and while the machine is so new there isn't any info anywhere but here....not over there, but here and I think that is great, hysteria and all.

 

[Kenjones21]

I bought the very first one that Honda of Covington had on Oct 21st, 240 miles average driving little mud few hills and so far No slipping or shuddering . I have done some pretty heavy hauling like my 19ft ski boat with no problems.

 

[lee]

Interesting. In your VIN you have 042XG where I have 0461G. Wonder what the differences mean.......

Waylan

This is a little old, the Big Red and P700 are covered but not the P500 and P1k:

http://powersports.honda.com/documents/support/2011-2014 VIN Guide.pdf

Also it is short on detail, There is no list for the vehicle description codes.
I would guess the different codes are for 3 seat vs 5 seat, what grade, not sure if color is included.
So basically I have nothing....

 

[hondabob]

Check out the Turbo RZR forum. RZR XP Turbo - Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net Clutch problems has 595 posts and over 47,000 views. They have some other major failures too and Polaris appears to be doing nothing to help these customers with over $27,000 invested. Now they have a $2,000 rebate so the guys just took another hit in their resale value. I bought 3 Polaris models and will never buy another although the New General model looks pretty nice. Hoping for some Honda Sport models this year.

 

[joeymt33]

That does put into perspective

 

[jguillot]

Whether it's $20k or $27k It still sucks when it's parked at the shop and not on the trails. I do agree that the Honda will uphold the warranty and ultimately the depreciation will be much less than Polaris' crap they keep putting out.

 

[CashMoney]

Check out the Turbo RZR forum. RZR XP Turbo - Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net Clutch problems has 595 posts and over 47,000 views. They have some other major failures too and Polaris appears to be doing nothing to help these customers with over $27,000 invested. Now they have a $2,000 rebate so the guys just took another hit in their resale value. I bought 3 Polaris models and will never buy another although the New General model looks pretty nice. Hoping for some Honda Sport models this year.

That was one of the main reasons I bought the Honda over the RZR turbo or General. Plus I had a 1st year RZR 900xp and sportsman 1000. Polaris sells s*** and let's the users figure out the problems. I had to weld new brackets to the frame for the A-arms, air box issues etc. On the quad over half of the people we talked to had issues with the exhaust running so hot it was melting plastics and polaris never did a dang thing to fix it. Everyones fix was to get an aftermarket muffler. One guys sued them in court and won the case for the amount of money to repair the plastics and purchase an aftermarket exhaust + attorney fees

 

[ghost]

I feel like I need to introduce myself to this thread as a first time poster - like I did when I joined Honda SxS.
From page 11-3 of the service manual - this clutch thing may not be a problem with the design or the parts...
Not the first time someone suggested "assembly" problem - but now i see it's listed in the manual

 

[Stauvo]

This post is a typo.

 

[Buckrocker]

I would bet its just bad o rings on the clutch shaft. probably cut during install of the clutch. if we all remember right the Rincon had a similar problem the fist year. oil pump would give you a problem with all gears.

Two thoughts.
1 If this is the cause of the problem then would it explain what seems like just one side getting "burnt"? It would seem there would be failures on both sides.
2. Would replacing a clutch pack also replace o rings? If not then this would not be a long term fix.
I and many othes would like the cause of this issue.

 

[Hometeam]

So food for thought here...I don't have a service manual so I'm going off what @Hondasxs is saying about the dct and how it works.
I know it's a wet system and uses oil for it. Disregard what Honda says for breakin of the machine. With conventional oil there is less lubricity in the oil hence one reason synthetic oil is usually looked at for being a better oil (but makes conventional oil better for breakin). So when ur motor and trans using the same oil is first being worn in there will be a couple things goin on with it. It will be seating rings and other parts and there will be metals in your oil (weather you see them or not). Also there is typically assembly greased used on the parts which in my experience is is thicker than oil. All this in my experience would lead to contaminated oil and thicker less lubricity oil than conventional oil already has. So when I think of little passages in a motor and this trans being the life line for it shifting and engaging it's shifts fully makes me wonder if either metals or thicker oil properties are effecting the oil being delivered to the clutch for shifts and engagements (Honda has told some to change there oil and see if that fixes it). And it seems like some peoples oils are really black when you have done your first oil change.
Maybe this is a stretch and I am just trying to think out of the box for those with issues and that after years of development and testing on this that Honda would not have the clutches able to take some of the riding people are doing with it or there has been an assembly issue that they are tracking down. I brokein my machine is like this and haven't had any issues so far: I let it warm up some before driving it. Then drove it around warming it up completely but didn't drive so slow that the shift wasn't a solid shift. Then after warm up I didn't take it to full redline for the first 15-20 miles but I did have it go through the gears completely and went up to at least 6000+ rpms. After the first 15-20 miles I took all the way through the rpms but on flat ground and kept doing it never letting it sit at an rpm for very long. At 5 hours or so on the machine I changed the oil (gotta get that breakin crap out of there). I then put the conventional oil in again. Now I still warmed it up completely before really pushing it but would go through the rpms to red line and had the gas pedal to the floor a lot. Still not letting it sit at one rpm for long. Then at 20-25 hours on the machine I changed to Amsoil full synthetic and now am running it as hard and labor some as I want. I am told by many that I'm anal but that is what I did and my bike feels awesome!
Not saying any of this is the difference especially if it's an assembly problem but I do feel bad for those with issues and would not want to have them with mine. Just reaching for different thoughts trying to help. Please pick my thoughts apart just can't stop thinking that it's not an issue so easy (like not a strong enough clutch) for Honda to have seen in the testing stages!

 

[walexa07]

I've run the crap out of mine - took it to redline and to 65mph several times in the first 20 miles. I've lugged it on hills in high range auto. It's got 100+ miles on it now with no issues and no black oil. I don't hold it on hills with the transmission. The way I run it now is the way I always intend to run it. If the Honda can't handle it I'll move it down the road and get something different, but I think Honda will get it figured out. Unfortunately they are starting off with a black eye - we will just need to see how they handle the warranty/post-warranty period on this issue.

The best news is that in 6 months we will all have a much better understanding of what the problem is/was, and whether this will be a continued issue with this style of transmission in a large powerful sxs.

Waylan

 

[JACKAL]

This is a little old, the Big Red and P700 are covered but not the P500 and P1k:

http://powersports.honda.com/documents/support/2011-2014 VIN Guide.pdf

Also it is short on detail, There is no list for the vehicle description codes.
I would guess the different codes are for 3 seat vs 5 seat, what grade, not sure if color is included.
So basically I have nothing....

View attachment 11725

Here is the 2016 Honda Pioneer lineup model # vs. VIN# series.

NOTE: the Model with AC is the CA models.
For example a Silver 1000-5 Deluxe the model # is SXS1000N5D3A with VIN# starting: 1HFVE04P-G4000001 - etc.
The Camo model is SXS1000M5PA etc. etc. letter & # combo specify its color and model type 3 seat 5 seat EPS deluxe or not.

 

[dale5740]

So food for thought here...I don't have a service manual so I'm going off what @Hondasxs is saying about the dct and how it works.
I know it's a wet system and uses oil for it. Disregard what Honda says for breakin of the machine. With conventional oil there is less lubricity in the oil hence one reason synthetic oil is usually looked at for being a better oil (but makes conventional oil better for breakin). So when ur motor and trans using the same oil is first being worn in there will be a couple things goin on with it. It will be seating rings and other parts and there will be metals in your oil (weather you see them or not). Also there is typically assembly greased used on the parts which in my experience is is thicker than oil. All this in my experience would lead to contaminated oil and thicker less lubricity oil than conventional oil already has. So when I think of little passages in a motor and this trans being the life line for it shifting and engaging it's shifts fully makes me wonder if either metals or thicker oil properties are effecting the oil being delivered to the clutch for shifts and engagements (Honda has told some to change there oil and see if that fixes it). And it seems like some peoples oils are really black when you have done your first oil change.
Maybe this is a stretch and I am just trying to think out of the box for those with issues and that after years of development and testing on this that Honda would not have the clutches able to take some of the riding people are doing with it or there has been an assembly issue that they are tracking down. I brokein my machine is like this and haven't had any issues so far: I let it warm up some before driving it. Then drove it around warming it up completely but didn't drive so slow that the shift wasn't a solid shift. Then after warm up I didn't take it to full redline for the first 15-20 miles but I did have it go through the gears completely and went up to at least 6000+ rpms. After the first 15-20 miles I took all the way through the rpms but on flat ground and kept doing it never letting it sit at an rpm for very long. At 5 hours or so on the machine I changed the oil (gotta get that breakin crap out of there). I then put the conventional oil in again. Now I still warmed it up completely before really pushing it but would go through the rpms to red line and had the gas pedal to the floor a lot. Still not letting it sit at one rpm for long. Then at 20-25 hours on the machine I changed to Amsoil full synthetic and now am running it as hard and labor some as I want. I am told by many that I'm anal but that is what I did and my bike feels awesome!
Not saying any of this is the difference especially if it's an assembly problem but I do feel bad for those with issues and would not want to have them with mine. Just reaching for different thoughts trying to help. Please pick my thoughts apart just can't stop thinking that it's not an issue so easy (like not a strong enough clutch) for Honda to have seen in the testing stages!

the amount of assembly lube to thicken the oil is like a drop in the bucket! def not enough to change the weight of the oil in the slightest amount. Furthermore u could run a heavier or lighter weight oil anyways with Hondas approval. Telling us the above is def not the problem. I do see what u are getting at! I would say if it was 20w50 or something it could possibly effect the clutches. Good thoughts!!

 

[Westtnpioneer]

It's been a while since I have been on here, but I got my new 1k last week. I was very skeptical with the clutch issues going on, but still decided to trade in the 700. I can easily understand the clutch being on back order. I had major issues with Honda on getting an axle when the 700 came out along with them wanting to work with me on the brake issue it had. I drove two different models before I got mine in last week. I did notice mine runs considerably different from the other two I drove. It seems noticeably faster. Anyhow, I got in touch with my dealer today and asked them to investigate the clutch issue and try and get one on order, because if it's going to go out I'll be the one it goes on. Next weekend I intend on putting some hard miles on it.

 

[educ8tedguess]

I hope Honda has people working as hard as the people on this form to figure it out. I have very little knowledge and experience working on the engines and what you guys are putting together is nothing short of awesome. I have not had any issues to date but I only have about 45 miles. All of my riding has been slow speeds at a terrain park and plowing this winter. When I get home I will check what my Vin number is

 

[ohanacreek]

the amount of assembly lube to thicken the oil is like a drop in the bucket! def not enough to change the weight of the oil in the slightest amount. Furthermore u could run a heavier or lighter weight oil anyways with Hondas approval. Telling us the above is def not the problem. I do see what u are getting at! I would say if it was 20w50 or something it could possibly effect the clutches. Good thoughts!!

The difference between 10-30 and 10-40 made a difference in my 700. Stealership put a cheap version of the wrong one in and it did not function right. I put the Honda oil in and worked like supposed to. With tolerances getting ever tighter oil viscosity can make a big difference.

 

[Westtnpioneer]

I looked up the clutch part number and there appears to be no new number. I say that because if I look up transmission it has a notification on one part that has changed.