P1000 ********ATTENTION HONDA NOT STANDING BEHIND THERE WARRANTY*******

[Eltobgi]

I must say that I'm pretty shocked that most all you guys on here are ok with an insurance company paying for what is pretty obvious (unless lies have been told) another Honda design flaw. Regarding CP's event, Mud and water got past air filtration system that appears to be intact and as designed. The brand bias in here is worse than any other forum I have ever been on. If this were Polaris or some other non-japan company, folks would be demanding the company stand behind their product. Make insurance pay? How can that be justified? CP, I just dont get your embrace of Honda after all that I read about what happened to you. Are you sure you didn't swamp it? Why would you want another if all you said about this failure is true? Wouldn't a sane person be afraid its just going to happen again or will you just avoid every little puddle? Will anyone admit the water trap in the intake tract system is flawed? I wonder if this post will be censored?

The solution...add a Snorkle. Time will tell, on unsnorkled machines, if events like this continue to occur that there is in fact a design flaw. For now, all we can do is take necessary precautions and watch closely.

 

[Admin]

 

[Jbird]

If the solution is a snorkle will that not void the factory warranty and make any water related claims to our insurer suspect? Mine will never be driven off into deep mud bogs but I didn't think I would have to worry about driving through a 18" deep creek.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

If the solution is a snorkle will that not void the factory warranty and make any water related claims to our insurer suspect? Mine will never be driven off into deep mud bogs but I didn't think I would have to worry about driving through a 18" deep creek.

That would be my concern. I still suspect that something else was wrong with CPs unit and it sucked water in from somewhere no one has thought about yet. Snorkel it to prevent the assumed failure mode and it still happens, will the assumption be from both Honda and the insurance company that you were intending to drive it in water and they assume that it was sunk and deny the warranty/ins claim?

If I had one, I think I would be going over it with a smoke generator/incense stick while it was running to see if it was drawing any air in somewhere that I hadn't though of as well as wiggling every single hose and joint to make sure there wasn't something loose somewhere.

 

[franzw]

Yes we had the all the oil changes and valve checked

Sorry to hear about your engine loss. Did you get the maintenance work done at the dealer and have records of it? Wonder if that could make a difference with their decision to not honor your warranty? Lot of owners out there are doing their own service work?

 

[Jbird]

I am so glad CP's disaster is being covered by insurance but if it had gone against him how many of us could cover a $10000.00 repair bill? We are retired on SS and are really blessed to be able to own one of these but a $10K melt down is definitely not in the budget. Between this and the clutch problems prospective buyers may decide they can't afford to play this game. Read somewhere that 60% of the families in the US have less than $1000 in savings. Though the magic of 7 year financing people are buying $20K SXSs and $25K Bass Boats with no back up plan. Scary.

 

[amc019]

Snorkel is cheap insurance IMO as long as you install and seal it up correctly.

 

[Eltobgi]

That would be my concern. I still suspect that something else was wrong with CPs unit and it sucked water in from somewhere no one has thought about yet. Snorkel it to prevent the assumed failure mode and it still happens, will the assumption be from both Honda and the insurance company that you were intending to drive it in water and they assume that it was sunk and deny the warranty/ins claim?

If I had one, I think I would be going over it with a smoke generator/incense stick while it was running to see if it was drawing any air in somewhere that I hadn't though of as well as wiggling every single hose and joint to make sure there wasn't something loose somewhere.

CP's Pioneer was not snorkel'd, he had a video of when it happened, and Honda didn't come through! Of course the assumption will be "Swamped" if there is water in the engine. I think that's going to be the case until the mystery is solved, or it happens to an engineer who works for Honda.
Joeymt33's Snorkle design allows you to switch back to stock without a trace of ever having been snorkel'd. Of course you would need a replacement hood.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I tried staying out of this as much as possible but my name came up several times under speculation. @HotRodLincoln i did not lie. I'm honest about things even if it makes me look stupid or ignorant. I am not one who holds back I tend to say either way what's on my mind. I DID NOT SWAMP my Pioneer. I agree there is a design flaw involved here. What happened to @DGrenke2 sounds somewhat along the lines as others but I wasn't there so I'm not going to say much there but I was for mine however and I'm pretty sure what happened to mine. There aren't too many other ways it could happen. We can speculate but a loose line would allow water to escape rather then collect and the filter would be super dirty from pulling from underside. A cracked case may allow water in depending on placement but at top it would be way over filled and bottom no oil but you wouldn't see water in the lines unless removed and should be obvious there's a crack when engine is out. There aren't too many other ways inside. It was to the best of my knowledge that water and dirt passed through the paper filer. Water under pressure can cut rock. It's probably not too weird. I'm upset Honda didn't "good will" my vehicle because I KNOW ITS NOT MY FAULT and there is a problem here but I do understand ALL of the companies stance on water. The reason I've recently found out that Honda did good will a couple was too examine the motors. I guess that's a start. Insurance is paid by the owner and is there too cover problems for the person or people financially responsible for the rig to guarantee equity. Insurance pays in an accident if someone else is at fault and doesn't cover someone else's equity. Same here. Im buying another Honda because of the track record. I own many and have all my life they prove to be better without a doubt. To fix a Polaris you'd have to install EVERYTHING from a Honda minus the air intake. I'll fix this and suggest others do as well. Politically correct is not me. I bleed Honda and I'm on the Honda website if someone has a problem with that read another site or stay off of my threads. I say good and bad about Honda I just don't have too much good to say on the other brands based off of my experience and from all I've seen, so I stayed away from those sites even when I owned a said vehicle.
@Jbird I understand the concern I assure you and really suggest a snorkel or at least a 90deg elbow on top of the intake under the hood. I would suggest a drain on the down tube under the seat if for nothing else piece of mind. Frogskin is something that many of the manufacturers are using to battle this possible issue (other companies have had same said issues especially Polaris with the Ranger) as well and should be explored more. My warrentee will cover an issue if I have the snorkel installed however I would suggest everyone ask and get it in writing. If they won't cover it @joeymt33 has a good design that's simple to remove and is what I will trust in myself. A simple 90deg under hood is easy to install and remove and you wouldn't have to have a spare hood. Get insurance I think ours is around 20 a month for a machine and I suggest Geiko after my hassle. No insurance didn't take care of everything and they wanted to go the easy route and replace parts but that's unacceptable to me on a Honda and because of this I had some payout but without it we would've been totally left screwed. @Crow_Hunter there seems to be a remote chance it was something else I wanted to prove this wrong desperately for warrentee purposes but the info I have just suggests it came all the way through. @franzw may have a point sadly but maybe If they go through Honda for maintenance you'd have easier time with warrantee.
I can only make suggestions but for me I'll snorkel it install a drain keep it insured and go back to driving it the way we were. This issue is not over and I hope it gets fixed and people keep this on their mind but I'm pretty sure this problem will not be allowed to occur on my next one so yes I'm going to buy a 2016 Honda Pioneer 1000-5 as the replacement. Still Honda!

 

[Jbird]

I'm certainly no expert on SXSs but I do have extensive experience with dirt bikes and ATVs. Call me crazy but until it can be shown conclusively I don't believe 3 quarts of water was instantly drawn through that intake. My guess is that it was drawn in through a crack, defective seals, or loose hose connection over time. I do not believe the responsibility lies with CP.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm certainly no expert on SXSs but I do have extensive experience with dirt bikes and ATVs. Call me crazy but until it can be shown conclusively I don't believe 3 quarts of water was instantly drawn through that intake. My guess is that it was drawn in through a crack, defective seals, or loose hose connection over time. I do not believe the responsibility lies with CP.

you know jbird one thing that sucks about the shop not finishing the motor is it'll get no further answers. I can only go off what I had seen and what was told so far. Be careful and safe my friend

 

[HotRodLincoln]

For the record CP, I never doubted your statement of events. I can see the design is flawed simply by the illustration that was posted. I was just pointing out that many loyalists will just assume your lying to protect their brand. If not for the seating configuration / size and the dct, I would have moved on and back into a can-am of which I have a flawless history with. I want to see this issue addressed, not covered up. Same with the clutch / gear ratio issue, excessive heat under seat, and other little gripes ie storage. I plow right through puddles, streams, rivers, etc. I also ride fast and in dusty and muddy conditions. As for quality reliability, Honda gets no gift from me, they must earn.....Both my rzr and maverick never gave me any trouble, sorry fan boys......but I'm not a brand bigot. This 1000-5 appears to fit my needs and I will wait till these majors are addressed by Honda, hopefully soon. Thanks and please continue reporting whats going on with these models.

 

[CumminsPusher]

For the record CP, I never doubted your statement of events. I can see the design is flawed simply by the illustration that was posted. I was just pointing out that many loyalists will just assume your lying to protect their brand. If not for the seating configuration / size and the dct, I would have moved on and back into a can-am of which I have a flawless history with. I want to see this issue addressed, not covered up. Same with the clutch / gear ratio issue, excessive heat under seat, and other little gripes ie storage. I plow right through puddles, streams, rivers, etc. I also ride fast and in dusty and muddy conditions. As for quality reliability, Honda gets no gift from me, they must earn.....Both my rzr and maverick never gave me any trouble, sorry fan boys......but I'm not a brand bigot. This 1000-5 appears to fit my needs and I will wait till these majors are addressed by Honda, hopefully soon. Thanks and please continue reporting whats going on with these models.

Ok fair enough and I didn't say you did. Understand this, I agree and I also want this issue fixed and have not tried to cover it up. I do see a couple other issues but most of them being because of the seating configuration. Seat heat,dump box and storage all come back to that to a degree so as much as I dislike those same issues I do understand why they are there and like most I will address them to my own rig. Do I wish Honda can do something well yes and I hope they do. The issue I had I DO NOT WANT COVERED UP! I want that fixed. It won't happen to me again however I don't want it to happen to anyone. I don't want to have to read even one more account. I was very discouraged and thank god I had support and I got lucky after continuing to push. The next guy may not. Some of us don't have a ton of money and are lucky enough to own one of these and many I think unlike some other brands may spend all they have to get one knowing it's a Honda and will not become a money pit as others sometime can. So no I won't cover this up. I will bring this up and make sure others know. Will I hold it against the company well yes a little but my next one is Honda as well. Today actually. Honda continues to prove they are better however there's always a few hiccups. So you know before the 700 we owned a Can-am(weird I know) I liked it and who would've thought that. Compared to the Polaris miles ahead but still not there. There were a few things I liked better. I went from that to the 700 I mean? Dependably. We can't afford to not have it. The others would be in the shop all the time with how we ride. Talk to any mechanic shop they will tell you how much better Honda is for dependability. Ask farmers. Ask the insurance company when you get you extended coverage. Maybe you got lucky or don't ride much or something but after owning one I can say I did like it just couldn't afford to keep it. But everyone has there own opinion. Ya I'm bias but with no apologies because of my own experiences. A couple issues Honda has to address and I'll push as much as anyone. I will be starting a new thread on the water issue to keep that alive because the last one got so screwed up by me being upset with my rig. I do apologize for that and that will not happen again. But like I said some have all they can do in one. But I'm still pushing for this to be resolved. Honda will improve on the already incredible vehicle they have. Let's help

 

[Plumber101010]

Have you started the new thread yet? I have been following this pretty much from the outside because I just don't have the technical know-how to really understand all of this. The theories behind it, the possible causes, I just don't. I'm very mechanical don't get me wrong, but this is the first SXS I've ever owned.

Intuitively though, just based on being very mechanical, I too watched your video and just don't think that did it. That was far from being abused and there had to be a defect somewhere somehow that caused it.

Aside from just being my gut instinct, I also say this because I watched dozens of videos with people driving the 1000 through mud Boggs, swamps, water over the doors, much much much more water than what you ever went through.

I am extremely interested in a new thread and would love to see how to actually do something as simple as putting a 90 under the hood. An actual how to post.

I'm just not quite ready to cut my hood and if there's something that I can do to prevent this that's easier and more simple I'm all ears. Well, all eyes... But seeing as I don't think, as well as most, that what you did caused it to begin with, going through with any kind of a modification needlessly...well let's just say that I too would like to find out what actually caused it before I take off and try to come up with a cure for something that may not actually cure it.

I personally have never been that loyal to any product in my life, and I bow and applaud you CP for having such loyalty. I will say that your attitude was very positive the whole time and I commend the way you praised Honda during a time when I would've been cussing them, if not thinking up a way to bomb them.

With such loyalty, all I can say, is I sure wish I was your neighbor!!!

 

[Plumber101010]

Ok fair enough and I didn't say you did. Understand this, I agree and I also want this issue fixed and have not tried to cover it up. I do see a couple other issues but most of them being because of the seating configuration. Seat heat,dump box and storage all come back to that to a degree so as much as I dislike those same issues I do understand why they are there and like most I will address them to my own rig. Do I wish Honda can do something well yes and I hope they do. The issue I had I DO NOT WANT COVERED UP! I want that fixed. It won't happen to me again however I don't want it to happen to anyone. I don't want to have to read even one more account. I was very discouraged and thank god I had support and I got lucky after continuing to push. The next guy may not. Some of us don't have a ton of money and are lucky enough to own one of these and many I think unlike some other brands may spend all they have to get one knowing it's a Honda and will not become a money pit as others sometime can. So no I won't cover this up. I will bring this up and make sure others know. Will I hold it against the company well yes a little but my next one is Honda as well. Today actually. Honda continues to prove they are better however there's always a few hiccups. So you know before the 700 we owned a Can-am(weird I know) I liked it and who would've thought that. Compared to the Polaris miles ahead but still not there. There were a few things I liked better. I went from that to the 700 I mean? Dependably. We can't afford to not have it. The others would be in the shop all the time with how we ride. Talk to any mechanic shop they will tell you how much better Honda is for dependability. Ask farmers. Ask the insurance company when you get you extended coverage. Maybe you got lucky or don't ride much or something but after owning one I can say I did like it just couldn't afford to keep it. But everyone has there own opinion. Ya I'm bias but with no apologies because of my own experiences. A couple issues Honda has to address and I'll push as much as anyone. I will be starting a new thread on the water issue to keep that alive because the last one got so screwed up by me being upset with my rig. I do apologize for that and that will not happen again. But like I said some have all they can do in one. But I'm still pushing for this to be resolved. Honda will improve on the already incredible vehicle they have. Let's help

 

[500]

if not thinking thinking up a way to bomb them.

LOL, now we are going to have the gov't monitoring the forums...

 

[Plumber101010]

around 500miles

Any update? Would be nice for you to make a post and let us know the current situation.

 

[hondabob]

The Honda service rep should check the engine damage. If it does have water damage the piston rings, rod bearings, etc will show the engine lock up damage. If something else caused the engine case damage it should be obvious and probably will be covered. It sucks to have your Pioneer in the shop for a long time. Driving into 18 inch deep water at speed has and can cause water to splash up over the hood and get into the air filter intake. If the engine is at high rpm water can instantly get into the engine. Most owners will drive slowly in deep water. I don't expect any big changes for a few years. Too bad for Hot Ron L. but you can keep using your Polaris and Can-Am models until their is major changes to the P1000. There is a chance for a high end sport model but I would think it would be a 2 seat model. The Teryx is a short 4 seater but top speed is under 50 mph and the belt drive air intake is from the rear cylinder head. The 2012 and 2013 both had the belt drive air intake up under the hood with an electric fan for keeping the engine cover heat down. Let us know the outcome and good luck with it fixed quickly.

 

[Plumber101010]

The Honda service rep should check the engine damage. If it does have water damage the piston rings, rod bearings, etc will show the engine lock up damage. If something else caused the engine case damage it should be obvious and probably will be covered. It sucks to have your Pioneer in the shop for a long time. Driving into 18 inch deep water at speed has and can cause water to splash up over the hood and get into the air filter intake. If the engine is at high rpm water can instantly get into the engine. Most owners will drive slowly in deep water. I don't expect any big changes for a few years. Too bad for Hot Ron L. but you can keep using your Polaris and Can-Am models until their is major changes to the P1000. There is a chance for a high end sport model but I would think it would be a 2 seat model. The Teryx is a short 4 seater but top speed is under 50 mph and the belt drive air intake is from the rear cylinder head. The 2012 and 2013 both had the belt drive air intake up under the hood with an electric fan for keeping the engine cover heat down. Let us know the outcome and good luck with it fixed quickly.

So then the key to this mystery, is not how much water you're in, but how fast you go through it? Logically I can wrap my brain around that statement and it would make sense

With that understanding though, even putting in the 90° elbow wouldn't necessarily stop it from happening correct?

 

[Massey1635]

Their.

 

[hondabob]

The 90 degree may help if high enough and facing back but I wouldn't trust it. I would run it up under the roof for high speed water riding and I would unhook my seat belt or use a 4 point belt until I got through the water. I have seen Rhino's and RZR's going fast and getting water up over the hood and only problem is getting wet.