P1000 burnt clutches up with less than 400 miles

[Nic]

There are many I'm sure that are "driver error " but like I said it shouldn't be driver error. People shouldn't need instructions on an automatic. It should work like the brand has for years. Seems like too much "driver error" imo. How many of us explain to others that drive our rig to not do this or not do that? Name another Honda product that happens on.


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Thats been my thought this whole time. This machine was designed as a sport/Utility. That being said, ANYBODY from your 16 year old punk kid, to your 99 year old grandma, should be able to get in this thing and drive it with no issues. Doesn't matter if you never go above 3 miles an hour or 63 miles an hour. When was the last time you bought a car and it said you needed to have a specific driving style or your tranny is going to fall out.

From all the posts on here and FB, there is no doubt in my mind there is a problem with the clutch system. Wether that be a design flaw, casting flaw, material flaw etc. There is to many instances to say otherwise. My guess honda has already secretly corrected it without anybody really knowing it, or they are actively working on a solution. I just hope mine has been one of the ones possibly corrected, or they have a recall to correct it. My machine will be used by many different people and I would hate to think the clutches went bad because one particular person drove it in that one particular way that will fry them.

 

[Admin]

 

[Eltobgi]

There are many I'm sure that are "driver error " but like I said it shouldn't be driver error. People shouldn't need instructions on an automatic. It should work like the brand has for years. Seems like too much "driver error" imo. How many of us explain to others that drive our rig to not do this or not do that? Name another Honda product that happens on.


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Yet there are instructions on operating through different modes. For me...I accept it and try to use the right mode for the right conditions in which I'm ridding! I ride hard and challenge anyone to say they ride harder or test this Machine at the level I do...Both work and play Am I driving in error? Probably but I accept that clutch replacement will eventually be inevitable. Even if it were to be necessary once a year I would still save Hundreds over what I paid for rubber bands on the POPO...while still improving enjoyment of ridding 100%! Only a few have been allowed to drive the Beast and I expect compliance with my instructions completely! The wife couldn't handle it...So doesn't get behind the wheel much anymore! My friends who want to drive get a lesson...and it's simple..."Drive it like you stole it...It's a Honda!"

 

[Delton]

There are many I'm sure that are "driver error " but like I said it shouldn't be driver error. People shouldn't need instructions on an automatic. It should work like the brand has for years. Seems like too much "driver error" imo. How many of us explain to others that drive our rig to not do this or not do that? Name another Honda product that happens on.


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Preach it brother C!! I can tell you how many. Not a dang one!!! I won't let my 15yr old foster daughter drive mine for awhile. Cause she was gonna kill my clutch (that's my privilege and mine alone). My foreman? Go ahead on girl and have at it. Just don't over rev it and we good. And THAT as CP put it....is how our sxs should be.

 

[Delton]

My riding style isn't hard on clutches. In fact I think in this case, it's the reason I'm pushing 1400 trouble free miles (clutch wise). I'm either sitting still idle or I'm instantly up to 6-7mph minimum. But I think I've paid for the right to load up my 12v sprayer and run 2mph down a fence line and spray with it. Not move a welder and 2 motorcycles to drag out my foreman. (Well, it USED to be 2 bikes thanks to the family thief, don't get me started).

 

[AKRider]

I'm NOT faulting Hondas QC!!!!!! Seriously y'all? Lol. Please don't assume I was. If I thought like that I wouldn't have that expensive playtoy sitting in my shop. Period. Totally missed the point. I probably worded it wrong.

Actually, that was me rhetorically suggesting Honda has a QC issue, for the sole purpose of discussion. I really wasn't saying they do.

 

[Delton]

Actually, that was me rhetorically suggesting Honda has a QC issue, for the sole purpose of discussion. I really wasn't saying they do.

It's all good. I know it's impossible to read into a post when it's just words on a screen. I was faulting the casting process. Which is what it is and really can't be changed.

 

[AKRider]

I got called stupid for making a point on the fb page. It's nice to discuss stuff with grownups like y'all. We are all learning here.

Although I like checking out what's going on over there, I tend to stay away from commenting too much. There's a lot of good information there, but there is also people that I think, at times, are just looking for an argument. I also think that page is more geared toward people that are building monster machines. It's a good resource, but I like the people here

 

[AKRider]

Well Said...& Great Idea for Sig

I've been quoted!

 

[Eltobgi]

I've been quoted!

Had no choice! When a Mary's Ridge ****** makes a suggestion...you listen! And...it's Right On!

 

[1BadDart]

I picked up my hard panel and had a good conversation with my service manager about the clutches. He said they had replaced only a few clutches and the issues had been with the early models. I asked about any service bulletins regarding chamfering or porting oil orifices. He said there was nothing from Honda but as we discussed it he said he could see where it could make clutch engagement and shifts smoother. I also asked about low voltage and clutch engagement and he hadn't heard of any issues with that. I explained that some guys had experienced the clutch disengaging while winching and re-engaging when they let off the winch switch. He didn't know the voltage requirement to keep the clutch engaged but there had been problems with the chassis ground under the seat on the drivers side and that would be the first thing to check. It seems some people had issues with the factory Honda winches because of that ground. I do not like chassis grounds, they can cause strange problems that are often hard to find.

The service manager jotted down some notes and said he'd ask his regional service rep next week. While we were discussing the chamfer he acknowledged that communication about issues or fixes from dealer to dealer was not very good.

There is indeed three pumps on the 1000, one for the engine, one for the transmission and the third is possible a scavenger pump. The service guy was honest with me and said that there was a lot of stuff they hadn't ran into because they had not seen many issues with the 1000. He also took my number and said he'd call if he found out anything.

Sorry I didn't really find out anything but maybe this will get some dialog started with the regional service rep and other dealers and regional reps.

 

[AKRider]

I picked up my hard panel and had a good conversation with my service manager about the clutches. He said they had replaced only a few clutches and the issues had been with the early models. I asked about any service bulletins regarding chamfering or porting oil orifices. He said there was nothing from Honda but as we discussed it he said he could see where it could make clutch engagement and shifts smoother. I also asked about low voltage and clutch engagement and he hadn't heard of any issues with that. I explained that some guys had experienced the clutch disengaging while winching and re-engaging when they let off the winch switch. He didn't know the voltage requirement to keep the clutch engaged but there had been problems with the chassis ground under the seat on the drivers side and that would be the first thing to check. It seems some people had issues with the factory Honda winches because of that ground. I do not like chassis grounds, they can cause strange problems that are often hard to find.

The service manager jotted down some notes and said he'd ask his regional service rep next week. While we were discussing the chamfer he acknowledged that communication about issues or fixes from dealer to dealer was not very good.

There is indeed three pumps on the 1000, one for the engine, one for the transmission and the third is possible a scavenger pump. The service guy was honest with me and said that there was a lot of stuff they hadn't ran into because they had not seen many issues with the 1000. He also took my number and said he'd call if he found out anything.

Sorry I didn't really find out anything but maybe this will get some dialog started with the regional service rep and other dealers and regional reps.

That's a lot of good information. Thanks for taking the time to write it up!

 

[CumminsPusher]

That's a lot of good information. Thanks for taking the time to write it up!

Agreed! If enough people dig someone finds gold!


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[Manwell]

I picked up my hard panel and had a good conversation with my service manager about the clutches. He said they had replaced only a few clutches and the issues had been with the early models. I asked about any service bulletins regarding chamfering or porting oil orifices. He said there was nothing from Honda but as we discussed it he said he could see where it could make clutch engagement and shifts smoother. I also asked about low voltage and clutch engagement and he hadn't heard of any issues with that. I explained that some guys had experienced the clutch disengaging while winching and re-engaging when they let off the winch switch. He didn't know the voltage requirement to keep the clutch engaged but there had been problems with the chassis ground under the seat on the drivers side and that would be the first thing to check. It seems some people had issues with the factory Honda winches because of that ground. I do not like chassis grounds, they can cause strange problems that are often hard to find.

The service manager jotted down some notes and said he'd ask his regional service rep next week. While we were discussing the chamfer he acknowledged that communication about issues or fixes from dealer to dealer was not very good.

There is indeed three pumps on the 1000, one for the engine, one for the transmission and the third is possible a scavenger pump. The service guy was honest with me and said that there was a lot of stuff they hadn't ran into because they had not seen many issues with the 1000. He also took my number and said he'd call if he found out anything.

Sorry I didn't really find out anything but maybe this will get some dialog started with the regional service rep and other dealers and regional reps.

Great information and thanks for sharing. One can learn a lot form the dealerships, especially those that sell a lot of machines and are willing to talk! Makes me want to swing by Southern Powersports in Chattanooga and just touch base, see what I can learn. They move a lot of these things... I'm going to drive this thing like I've driven all of my Honda's in the past - that would be however I want (as if I stole it) and they have all been up to the task! If this one starts breaking and become a PITA, I'll get rid of it and do something else!

 

[snuffnwhisky]

My clutch has been great so far. A bunch of people without problems with a lot of hard miles makes me think some bad parts got through and some were just abused not knowing better.

 

[mbjeepxj]

I've not had any trouble. Though I only have a little over 100 miles on mine and haven't even had first service done yet.
My only complaint is the gearing is too high. When you take off from a stop on a steep incline, you can feel a chatter like when you drive a car with a manual transmission and nearly stall the engine. Makes me cringe when we're trail riding with a group, going up a steep hill, and someone up ahead stops. I believe if the low range had better gearing (or at the very least, a lower first "granny" gear (including reverse), it would foolproof these things.

I used to have a Jeep Rubicon with a six speed manual. It had a 4:1 low range and 4.10 gears in the axles and I ran 33" tires. You could literally put it in 1st, not even touch the gas, let out the clutch and it would crawl uphill like a tractor. I once stuck both my feet out the door (door's were off) while crawling up a really steep incline just to show off to my friends. I thought about getting out and walking beside it but it was one of those hils that would be tough to walk on foot, lol. And this was a 2007 jeep with the anemic "minivan" V6. Amazing what a little more torque multiplication can do.

On the opposite end of the spectrum...one of my friends recently got a new Yamaha YXZ1000 with the automatic clutch and paddle shifters. Since it has no low range at all, it's a nightmare on tight trails. Even with Yamaha's electronic "nanny" half clutching mode or whatever you call it where it let's the engine rev while it partially engages the clutch by itself to help get you started on inclines. Seems to me that would be even harder on the clutch.

Anyway. I've rambled on too much. I just hope that any trouble reports are either early production run issues, or if not, that Honda steps up with a recall. Either way, I'm not changing how I drive it.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I've not had any trouble. Though I only have a little over 100 miles on mine and haven't even had first service done yet.
My only complaint is the gearing is too high. When you take off from a stop on a steep incline, you can feel a chatter like when you drive a car with a manual transmission and nearly stall the engine. Makes me cringe when we're trail riding with a group, going up a steep hill, and someone up ahead stops. I believe if the low range had better gearing (or at the very least, a lower first "granny" gear (including reverse), it would foolproof these things.

I used to have a Jeep Rubicon with a six speed manual. It had a 4:1 low range and 4.10 gears in the axles and I ran 33" tires. You could literally put it in 1st, not even touch the gas, let out the clutch and it would crawl uphill like a tractor. I once stuck both my feet out the door (door's were off) while crawling up a really steep incline just to show off to my friends. I thought about getting out and walking beside it but it was one of those hils that would be tough to walk on foot, lol. And this was a 2007 jeep with the anemic "minivan" V6. Amazing what a little more torque multiplication can do.

On the opposite end of the spectrum...one of my friends recently got a new Yamaha YXZ1000 with the automatic clutch and paddle shifters. Since it has no low range at all, it's a nightmare on tight trails. Even with Yamaha's electronic "nanny" half clutching mode or whatever you call it where it let's the engine rev while it partially engages the clutch by itself to help get you started on inclines. Seems to me that would be even harder on the clutch.

Anyway. I've rambled on too much. I just hope that any trouble reports are either early production run issues, or if not, that Honda steps up with a recall. Either way, I'm not changing how I drive it.

Mine does the same thing. However, in my polling of people here and elsewhere, not everyone's does it. I just try to "gun it" to get out of that shudder range as quickly as possible. It has reduced some after the first oil change. I can feel it now but before it rattled the entire unit.

I also agree completely with you on the gearing. Honda should have done what Yamaha has done on the YXZ with the GYTR gear reduction kit and gave us a different gear set (from the factory though as the initial offering). It has a significant reduction of first gear and a 25 or 30% reduction in the other gears so that it has some torque available at slow speeds.

I really think that Low Range on the Pioneer should have been geared such that 10-15 MPH (instead of nearly 30 MPH ) was the top out and Hi Range was topped out at 50 MPH or so. This isn't a dune racer, 66 MPH is speed that really isn't useable very often in a sport/utility unit by the majority of buyers however more pulling power/ability to mount heavier tires without clutch damage would be a significant improvement.

I think Honda got too close to the sport/performance edge trying to give us a pseudo-sport unit instead of focusing more on the utility side of things and that is causing units with particular tolerance stack ups to have issues.

ETA: You should have your buddy look at the GYTR kit for his Yamaha. It is right at $1,000 but from what I understand, fairly easy/inexpensive to install and vastly improves trail/mud performance.

 

[JTW]

Mine does the same thing. However, in my polling of people here and elsewhere, not everyone's does it. I just try to "gun it" to get out of that shudder range as quickly as possible. It has reduced some after the first oil change. I can feel it now but before it rattled the entire unit.

I also agree completely with you on the gearing. Honda should have done what Yamaha has done on the YXZ with the GYTR gear reduction kit and gave us a different gear set (from the factory though as the initial offering). It has a significant reduction of first gear and a 25 or 30% reduction in the other gears so that it has some torque available at slow speeds.

I really think that Low Range on the Pioneer should have been geared such that 10-15 MPH (instead of nearly 30 MPH ) was the top out and Hi Range was topped out at 50 MPH or so. This isn't a dune racer, 66 MPH is speed that really isn't useable very often in a sport/utility unit by the majority of buyers however more pulling power/ability to mount heavier tires without clutch damage would be a significant improvement.

I think Honda got too close to the sport/performance edge trying to give us a pseudo-sport unit instead of focusing more on the utility side of things and that is causing units with particular tolerance stack ups to have issues.

ETA: You should have your buddy look at the GYTR kit for his Yamaha. It is right at $1,000 but from what I understand, fairly easy/inexpensive to install and vastly improves trail/mud performance.

Top speed and performance were most certainly things I looked for! There are plenty of utility units out there.. many much better than the Honda. I would however like low range to be low. I really haven't had enough seat time to note complaints but it seems to be low.

 

[Nic]

Top speed and performance were most certainly things I looked for! There are plenty of utility units out there.. many much better than the Honda. I would however like low range to be low. I really haven't had enough seat time to note complaints but it seems to be low.

My thoughts exactly. I looked at the performance aspect just as much as the utility. This is in the crossover sport/utility class. If I wanted a slow utility thing I would have bought one of those. I just think it could use a little lower first and reverse gear, and maybe a little lower lo range. I think the gearing is pretty spot on everywhere else for basting through the woods. Like the manual says, you need to be in low range for utility anyway.

 

[1BadDart]

^^^^ I agree with ya'll. I wanted something the wife could use around the house, I could use for hunting and a little playing. I already have a tractor.

 

[Delton]

Thanks for sharing that info. It's a good start. Not sure if mine is an early model or not. Purchased this past Jan 5th so I'd think it's pretty early. I intend to keep on keeping on. Whatever I'm doing seems to be working lol. If they fail, they fail. It's an off-road playtoy. Stuff breaks. That's just how it is.