P1000 Broken Bolt mount to A-Arm. 2018 Pioneer 1000-LE

[TxDoc]

My heart goes out to you for this situation that could easily be fixed by a giant corporation and they could receive so much goodwill and publicity.

Otherwise, current owners and potential customers definitely will think twice about any future purchases long and hard.

Good luck, still holding out hope

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

 

[Admin]

 

[CID]

Guys fix things, it's what we do. If something breaks, we make it better, it's how we got men on the moon and robots on Mars. Although disappointing, that's an easy fix for anyone with a welder. Hand form a larger 'ear' like my crude drawing in post 17 and add an angle bracket tying into the two bumper bolts that are right there (snuffnwhisky's post 26) and never think about it again. You'll be out $200(?).

 

[sporttrac4x4]

Need to call Honda Co. Not the shop Contact Us

 

[jp_holy]

Need to call Honda Co. Not the shop Contact Us

Yes. That is who I have been talking to. Honda Customer Support.

 

[ToddACimer]

UPDATE:

Called Corporate Honda yesterday, and spoke with a representative that is not assigned to my case. I have called and left a message with the case manager of my case everyday. I have not spoke to her once through the entire process. The representative I did speak with, was able to read the notes attached to my case. She said the District Representative from Honda looked at my machine on Monday. In his notes he stated, "personally, I believe the failure to have been caused by impact, and not material/manufacturing defect" So, I asked her does that mean Honda is not going to cover it under warranty? She said she did not know, and would leave a message with my case mangager to contact me. Ha ha, good one.

I asked her if I could speak to the individual I spoke with this past Thursday (July 16, 2020). He is, evidently, the Motorcycle Sales Trainer for Honda in California. She told me that he went home sick for the rest of the day.

I then sent an email to the purchasing dealer, Southern Honda in Tennessee. I immediately received a phone call from the Service Manager. He told me that he spoke with the regional manager, and was told that my case is still waiting for review by Honda Corporate. He said that the Quality/Warranty Engineers meet on a weekly basis to discuss these types of matters, and that the meeting for this week has not yet taken place. The good news is that I have finally got the attention of Honda, and I guess I'll just hold out to see if they decide to make this right. Big Thanks to Southern Honda Powersports in Chatanooga Tennessee! These guys are commited to thier customers, and I have nothing but great things to say about them thoughout this whole process!

If Honda decides they are not going to cover the damage, I guess, stay tuned for a posting. FOR SALE: 2018 Honda Pioneer 1000-5 LE. SOLD AS IS! But, I'm hoping that does not have to happen!

Stay Tuned, and Safe Riding to everyone!

Interested in a price if it comes up for sale.

 

[BigOL3]

If Honda decides they are not going to cover the damage, I guess, stay tuned for a posting. FOR SALE: 2018 Honda Pioneer 1000-5 LE. SOLD AS IS! But, I'm hoping that does not have to happen!

Stay Tuned, and Safe Riding to everyone!

Man, that is your choice, but I KNOW I would spend a couple hundred $$ at a good fab shop and make that sucker BETTER than new.

 

[sporttrac4x4]

If Honda does not backup their product then get a lawyer Sue them

 

[Isac]

Apparently there are other folks out there with the same problem.

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[CID]

Apparently there are other folks out there with the same problem.

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This is why I think a repair is better than frame replacement, you can beef up the frame where it failed but if the frame gets replaced, it'll have the same poorly engineered mounts.

 

[jp_holy]

UPDATE!!

Well, for everyone waiting to say I told you so. You can now let me have it. I am utterly speechless, and beyond disappointed right now that Honda has decided to do NOTHING about this!!!

I finally received a call back from Honda Customer Service Manager today. She had previously told me on Monday (July 27) that she promised to call me on Wednesday (29th) with a response to how they were going to handle this. I waited all day for a call yesterday, but it didn't happen. I then tried to call Honda Customer service and the automated message said "Thanks for Calling Honda Customer Service, our office is unexpectedly closed" So I then went to Honda Motorcycles & ATV's on FB and tried to get a response. Below is screenshots of the response that I received.

The above response, is pretty much Par for The Course for my interactions with Honda throughout this process!! I mean the individual that is authorized to comment on Honda Corporate FB can't tell me why the offices are closed??

So anyway, the manager that contacted me today said that Honda has decided not to cover the failure of my machine under warranty!!! It only took them a month & a half to come to this decision. I asked if there was ANYTHING that Honda would be able to do to help me out? She said, NO!!! I then asked about if they were at least going to replace the seat that is filled with 10 gallons of water (that is also a KNOWN DEFECT of the HONDA PIONEER). She said, "I don't see anything in my notes about us covering the seat replacement"

I have been sticking it out throughout this process, and holding back my frustrations a great deal. I knew, I could always go pick up the machine and fix it myself, but I strongly believe that I shouldn't have had to! ONLY because I was certain that HONDA was going to pull through, and DO THE RIGHT THING!! I have been defending Honda, and saying "They are gonna take care of this, I'm sure of it" I was SADLY mistaken after the phone call I received today. I told her, I literally have no idea what I am going to do now, since I was so confident that Honda was going to take care of it. I said "I'm half tempted to leave it at the Dealer (Honda Marysville), and wipe my hands of it." Tell, American Honda Finance where they can find it, and have them pick it up. It won't hurt my credit. Then Honda, can fix it, like they should have done in the 1st place, and sell it to another sucker for $20,000.

I am beyond frustrated right now. I hope that people take notice of this post before buying a Honda Pioneer. I'm sure in the next model, Honda will correct the design, but I guess I'm just a guinea pig for Honda Powersports R&D.

Tomorrow, I plan on going to pick up my machine that has been sitting at Honda Marysville since June 26th! In the meantime, I'm going to think long & hard about if I want to put any more money into this machine. It will be pretty tough to get back into it, even if I fix it, knowing that Honda has abandoned the philosophy that made them great to begin with. Might be interested in any (serious) offers anyone is willing to throw out for the machine.

SHAME ON YOU HONDA!! @HondaPowersprts You just lost one of your most loyal customers for LIFE!
#HondaPowersprts
I AM NO LONGER RIDIN' RED!! @RideRedSupport
#RideRedSupport

 

[Neohio]

Might be finally worth a phone call to your insurance agent.
Let them cover the repair.

 

[TripleB]

UPDATE!!

Well, for everyone waiting to say I told you so. You can now let me have it. I am utterly speechless, and beyond disappointed right now that Honda has decided to do NOTHING about this!!!

I finally received a call back from Honda Customer Service Manager today. She had previously told me on Monday (July 27) that she promised to call me on Wednesday (29th) with a response to how they were going to handle this. I waited all day for a call yesterday, but it didn't happen. I then tried to call Honda Customer service and the automated message said "Thanks for Calling Honda Customer Service, our office is unexpectedly closed" So I then went to Honda Motorcycles & ATV's on FB and tried to get a response. Below is screenshots of the response that I received.
View attachment 215602
View attachment 215603
View attachment 215604
The above response, is pretty much Par for The Course for my interactions with Honda throughout this process!! I mean the individual that is authorized to comment on Honda Corporate FB can't tell me why the offices are closed??

So anyway, the manager that contacted me today said that Honda has decided not to cover the failure of my machine under warranty!!! It only took them a month & a half to come to this decision. I asked if there was ANYTHING that Honda would be able to do to help me out? She said, NO!!! I then asked about if they were at least going to replace the seat that is filled with 10 gallons of water (that is also a KNOWN DEFECT of the HONDA PIONEER). She said, "I don't see anything in my notes about us covering the seat replacement"

I have been sticking it out throughout this process, and holding back my frustrations a great deal. I knew, I could always go pick up the machine and fix it myself, but I strongly believe that I shouldn't have had to! ONLY because I was certain that HONDA was going to pull through, and DO THE RIGHT THING!! I have been defending Honda, and saying "They are gonna take care of this, I'm sure of it" I was SADLY mistaken after the phone call I received today. I told her, I literally have no idea what I am going to do now, since I was so confident that Honda was going to take care of it. I said "I'm half tempted to leave it at the Dealer (Honda Marysville), and wipe my hands of it." Tell, American Honda Finance where they can find it, and have them pick it up. It won't hurt my credit. Then Honda, can fix it, like they should have done in the 1st place, and sell it to another sucker for $20,000.

I am beyond frustrated right now. I hope that people take notice of this post before buying a Honda Pioneer. I'm sure in the next model, Honda will correct the design, but I guess I'm just a guinea pig for Honda Powersports R&D.

Tomorrow, I plan on going to pick up my machine that has been sitting at Honda Marysville since June 26th! In the meantime, I'm going to think long & hard about if I want to put any more money into this machine. It will be pretty tough to get back into it, even if I fix it, knowing that Honda has abandoned the philosophy that made them great to begin with. Might be interested in any (serious) offers anyone is willing to throw out for the machine.

SHAME ON YOU HONDA!! @HondaPowersprts You just lost one of your most loyal customers for LIFE!
#HondaPowersprts
I AM NO LONGER RIDIN' RED!! @RideRedSupport
#RideRedSupport

All the companies are like this. A guy i work with has had nothing but hell from polaris over his 25k turbo s. He had to get a lawyer for them to pay anything. He still got screwed. He's had it 18 months and its been in th shop almost 9 of them.

 

[RogerD]

Can anybody tell me the thickness of the metal used in the frame where the a arms are ripping from?

 

[Marcel]

Can anybody tell me the thickness of the metal used in the frame where the a arms are ripping from?

I think the thickness of the steel is only half the problem. I think the bigger issue is there’s only 2 tabs of steel holding the a arm on 1 long bolt vs 4 tabs and 2 bolts on every other Honda upper a arm. Every Honda Atv they had on the shop floor and the pioneer 500 and 700 have a 4 point setup, but their biggest heaviest sxs has half as much. That doesn’t make sense to me but I’m not an engineer. the Yamaha sxs I had has a better setup.

 

[Vikes79]

I’m having a hard time understanding your expectations of Honda on a used demo machine.

The tab failure is clearly the result of an hard forward impact, post , stump, deep hard rut etc. You knew it had 500 miles of potentially hard riding when you bought it.

Any defects in the joint would be clear in the picture ( rust, discoloration, etc) but you have a 100% material elongation that stretched that material to failure which is consistent with impact, hooking a tire, etc.

This is why Honda denied the claim.
It’s not clear to me why you didn’t call the dealer where you bought it? At least the purchasing dealer may have helped out on a fab repair.

I also find it interesting that you blew off the recommendations about insurance and seeking a local shop repair. You even went so far to down vote the recommendation

Honestly a competent fab shop could have made the repair easily and inexpensively and still is the best route to riding again.

 

[ToddACimer]

I’m having a hard time understanding your expectations of Honda on a used demo machine.

The tab failure is clearly the result of an hard forward impact, post , stump, deep hard rut etc. You knew it had 500 miles of potentially hard riding when you bought it.

Any defects in the joint would be clear in the picture ( rust, discoloration, etc) but you have a 100% material elongation that stretched that material to failure which is consistent with impact, hooking a tire, etc.

This is why Honda denied the claim.
It’s not clear to me why you didn’t call the dealer where you bought it? At least the purchasing dealer may have helped out on a fab repair.

I also find it interesting that you blew off the recommendations about insurance and seeking a local shop repair. You even went so far to down vote the recommendation

Honestly a competent fab shop could have made the repair easily and inexpensively and still is the best route to riding again.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Jason-2119]

So what happened with the side by side? Fix or sell?

 

[jp_holy]

Well Honda didn't cover anything so I did what I should have done in the 1st place.
I Ordered the longer Polaris Ranger bolts & welded a piece of angle iron to the frame & tab that broke. Below is a few pics.

If you notice I also had to replace the CV Boot, and Upper ball joint. These were both COMPLETELY INTACT & UNDAMAGED when I dropped it off at Honda Marysville. But when I went to pick it up the other day, one of the service techs backed it out of the bay at a decent rate of speed, and then got out to let me put it on the trailer. I thought it was weird that he was driving it in the 1st place, let alone at that speed. So once I pulled it onto the trailer, my brother & I started looking at it closer. The GENIUS service department at Honda Marysville decided to ratchet strap the 2 A-Arms together, and evidently had been driving it in and out of the shop. You can notice the grease splatters in the pics that went all the way up to the wheel wells. So by doing this caused the upper ball joint to come out, and then rubbed into the CV boot tearing it off. You can also notice the nice scratch they caused near the ball joint by doing this! Below are the pics from when i picked it up.

I of course asked the guy in the service department if he was going to pay for the new ball joint & CV boot that they damaged. He said "the manager is not here today". I said "so who is in charge today?" He replied, "well, I guess that would be me" I said "are you sure?"😂
So I just said forget it. I'll pay for them. I just wanted to get the hell out of there!

So after beefing up the mounts by fabricating angle iron & welding to the frame, and putting longer bolts in we replaced the new ball joint and CV boot. It was definitely out of alignment once we had everything bolted back up but that was pretty easy to do. I zip tied a 4 foot level to the middle of each front tire, and then did my measurements from the front and back of the tire. Honda recommends front toed in 3'16"

Moral of the story. Don't rely on Honda to ever back their Warranty with these Machines!! And DEFINITELY DO NOT EVER, EVER Take any Machine, Motorcycle, or even have air put in a tire at HONDA MARYSVILLE!!!

Thanks to everyone who submitted the mods that I replicated!! Greatly appreciated! Stay Safe, and try not to break s*** 🤷‍♂️

 

[RogerD]

Well Honda didn't cover anything so I did what I should have done in the 1st place.
I Ordered the longer Polaris Ranger bolts & welded a piece of angle iron to the frame & tab that broke. Below is a few pics.
View attachment 221139
View attachment 221140
View attachment 221141
View attachment 221142
View attachment 221143
View attachment 221144
If you notice I also had to replace the CV Boot, and Upper ball joint. These were both COMPLETELY INTACT & UNDAMAGED when I dropped it off at Honda Marysville. But when I went to pick it up the other day, one of the service techs backed it out of the bay at a decent rate of speed, and then got out to let me put it on the trailer. I thought it was weird that he was driving it in the 1st place, let alone at that speed. So once I pulled it onto the trailer, my brother & I started looking at it closer. The GENIUS service department at Honda Marysville decided to ratchet strap the 2 A-Arms together, and evidently had been driving it in and out of the shop. You can notice the grease splatters in the pics that went all the way up to the wheel wells. So by doing this caused the upper ball joint to come out, and then rubbed into the CV boot tearing it off. You can also notice the nice scratch they caused near the ball joint by doing this! Below are the pics from when i picked it up.
View attachment 221152

View attachment 221153
I of course asked the guy in the service department if he was going to pay for the new ball joint & CV boot that they damaged. He said "the manager is not here today". I said "so who is in charge today?" He replied, "well, I guess that would be me" I said "are you sure?"😂
So I just said forget it. I'll pay for them. I just wanted to get the hell out of there!

So after beefing up the mounts by fabricating angle iron & welding to the frame, and putting longer bolts in we replaced the new ball joint and CV boot. It was definitely out of alignment once we had everything bolted back up but that was pretty easy to do. I zip tied a 4 foot level to the middle of each front tire, and then did my measurements from the front and back of the tire. Honda recommends front toed in 3'16"

Moral of the story. Don't rely on Honda to ever back their Warranty with these Machines!! And DEFINITELY DO NOT EVER, EVER Take any Machine, Motorcycle, or even have air put in a tire at HONDA MARYSVILLE!!!

Thanks to everyone who submitted the mods that I replicated!! Greatly appreciated! Stay Safe, and try not to break s*** 🤷‍♂️

Yours broke a little different from mine. Thank you for mentioning the polaris bolt. I had no idea they wud work.

 

[ToddACimer]

Yours broke a little different from mine. Thank you for mentioning the polaris bolt. I had no idea they wud work.

I run a polaris bolt on mine too. It's a course thread and it terminates the shank well within the a-arm. My thought is with stiffer tabs and weld washers the coarse thread bolt is more likely to break than the OEM Honda bolt with fine thread and the high torque is no longer needed because the tabs aren't being torqued /bent to clamp the bushings in place. My bushings are tight and I've basically created a pin joint