2018 1000-5 drops a cylinder at idle.

[Redtech]

Ok...is it possible to unplug the stator without unplugging the ckp? I suspect not, but if you can, I wonder how it would run? The goal being to bridge any possible circuits that might be shorted without providing charging voltage.

I know you ran it with a charger and it seemed ok, so that's probably not it, but I assume the regulator was disconnected for that.

Yes it's a separate 2 pin plug for the ckp and a 3 pin for the stator that plugs into the regulator. Stator harness is just those 5 wires and only about 18 inches long. Seems to be same result weather I unplug the stator from regulator or the charge side of regulator from vehicle harness. That's what has me so damn confused and was thinking ac voltage leaking into main harness from regulator. But replacing made no difference so I'm spinning circles. I've moved on for now and will continue to dwell on possibilities in the meantime.

 

[Admin]

 

[MVP2017]

Yes it's a separate 2 pin plug for the ckp and a 3 pin for the stator that plugs into the regulator. Stator harness is just those 5 wires and only about 18 inches long. Seems to be same result weather I unplug the stator from regulator or the charge side of regulator from vehicle harness. That's what has me so damn confused and was thinking ac voltage leaking into main harness from regulator. But replacing made no difference so I'm spinning circles. I've moved on for now and will continue to dwell on possibilities in the meantime.

Re-learn on the clutch? Water in the intake tube?

 

[Redtech]

Re-learn on the clutch? Water in the intake tube?

Already relearning clutch twice and intake tube is dry, I've fought that one on a few machines. This does it even with air box off so I can get all the wiring to wiggle an bend while running

 

[imkewls]

So I experienced something similar to this on a Polaris Ranger. Long story short the crank was ever so slightly out of round and the crank position sensor wasn't always getting triggered. As a second means of troubleshooting I grinded some (a very tiny amount) of the plastic off of the crank sensor so it would sit lower and be closer to crank. It then ran without any issues at all, so I had narrowed the problem down and it needed a rebuild. It took me a good while to figure it out though included swapping just about every electrical part with known goods before I started looking for unlikely solutions.

Back to your issue with unplugging the stator... Perhaps removing the load from the stator causes the crank to sit differently and the crank sensor is getting all of its pulses that it would miss when under that load... Just a thought.

 

[Redtech]

That may be something worth looking at. Off the wall odd ball stuff like that is about what I'm down to with this thing

 

[DG Rider]

That may be something worth looking at. Off the wall odd ball stuff like that is about what I'm down to with this thing

Don't suppose you have a lab scope?

Scoping the pulse from CKP would show something like that pretty quickly.

Also, did you see my suggestion about the battery?

 

[Redtech]

Don't suppose you have a lab scope?

Scoping the pulse from CKP would show something like that pretty quickly.

Also, did you see my suggestion about the battery?

Yes I ran on separate battery with accessories unhooked from battery. Same thing. An yes we have access to a scope. That is next on my list is to scope the ckp. We already scoped both injector signals a few days ago. I need to look at specs and see how high ckp goes cause I don't wanna fry my other tech snap on s an tool that has the scope built in it. That is why I did peak voltage test on coils instead of scoping. We don't have a high voltage shunt for it.

 

[Jason W]

All my tech brain says , check main grounds, make and extra from head to frame

 

[Cobber4082]

Any update? What did you find?@dakotadrone

 

[Redtech]

So far still going back an forth with Honda techline. They wanted more data recordings sent in. I'm thinking it's in the splices inside the TPS/MAP sensor. Something with the extra voltage from charging system is enough amperage to cause MAP reading to jump around.

 

[Cobber4082]

sucks for the customer as well as you on this one. Sorry I got nothing to add -just morbid curiosity. thanks for the update.

 

[Remington]

So far still going back an forth with Honda techline. They wanted more data recordings sent in. I'm thinking it's in the splices inside the TPS/MAP sensor. Something with the extra voltage from charging system is enough amperage to cause MAP reading to jump around.

Have you tried whole full new wiring harness for the rig? I know it sucks to do but….

Had similar issues with a customers standby Gen that would intermittently run rough loose a cylinder after a brief warm up and shut down on auxiliary alarm. Went through all the motions, simple things first to cross off the long list then I got into the magnetos, valves ect. All checked out percectly. all was left was a wiring compromiseation issue of some sort or internal diode, bad internal wire giving wrong dirty power voltage to the computer control as the unit ran causing the rough run on one cylinder after warm up then out of the blue the control sees the slight drop out of range and then the auxiliary shut down. With all the other boxes checked (work smarter not harder) that was the only possible cause that anyone in there right mind was not going to take apart and trace each wire or the naked eye could even see even on a meeter.
Took 6hrs labor under warranty, but I removed the original OEM mouse nest of wiring harness cutting my arms in the proses , installed the new one and holy $hit it never skipped a beat. Prior we where getting a call weekly for shut down 2 months on weekly test. Now its been 4-1/2 months with no alarms and 3, 4hr outages with no issues. Needless to say, the invisible wire voltage issue was the problem.
Not saying its yours cuz its a ghost issue. But your fishing right now and looks like you've checked all the boxes but one.

 

[Redtech]

Yea I'm trying to justify the wire harness and I'm just not there yet. Only input reading I see moving when unplugging the stator is the map average. Has shared power and ground and spices internal of the sensor with separate signal wires. I've wiggle tested all over between throttle body and pcm. I've already wasted the customers money on a stator and regulator that did not fix the issue. If I throw a wire harness at it and it doesn't fix it. It would make me sick. I'm not the type to start just firing the parts cannon unless I can justify the parts being the cause. I thought for sure the stator and regulator would take care of it as I've seen ac voltage bleed cause all kinds of issues on other stuff. If honda thinks harness over throttle body I have no problem going that route. Had to do a few harness already for other issues and gremlins.

 

[Neohio]

Have you checked all the factory splices for corrosion? If you find any, replace the harness. I don't think the harness is terribly expensive by itself, but the labor is going to be right up there.

 

[Redtech]

Yes I've looked at all the splice points I could find and expose, and the 2 joint connectors that act as a splice for multiple different systems. One being the 5v reference for the sensors. All checked out good with zero corrosion

 

[Remington]

Yes I've looked at all the splice points I could find and expose, and the 2 joint connectors that act as a splice for multiple different systems. One being the 5v reference for the sensors. All checked out good with zero corrosion

yeah thats what I had ⚠️
Some things you just cant see or read on a meeter.

 

[DG Rider]

Do the MCS MAP readings look the same on a known-good machine when you unplug the regulator?

 

[Redtech]

From what I remember of last time I hooked a good one up it was the same roughly as when stator is unplugged. I haven't had a chance to hook another one up since finding the map reading jumping on this one though. It's that time of year I'm starting to get swamped in the shop. Already been working 60 hr weeks the last few months.

 

[Redtech]

So realized I never updated. I've hooked up a couple other known good machines and the MAP average pressure is the same weather stator is unplugged or not as this machine when unplugged. Tried swapping out a known good tmap sensor and doing throttle position relearn. Same issue happening. Still no response from techline other than send in more data recordings. Think I have engineering stumped lol. While doing some digging through wire diagrams the other day remembered a few years ago I had a no start that was caused be fan control module. Wanna try swapping that but don't have any 21 or prior machines I can swap off of at the moment and waiting for the ok to replace wire harness. To top it off the count is now up to 4 machines with same issue all 2018 1000 5 seaters. So far this customer has been great but I think his patience is wearing as is mine.

 

[Red101]

Long story short I have done just about everything like dakotadrone has with the same symptoms except when switching the injector wires I was able to make the misfire transfer cylinders so I double checked my wires again going from the ECM to my injector wires, ohm tested, unwrapped loom, did a pull test, ohm wiggle test etc… and finally decided that it had to be coming from the ECM. Keep in mind I am the type of mechanic that tries to absolutely eliminate throwing ECM’s at things, so it’s my last resort but I put a new ECM in and everything runs just fine, just thought I would share that with everyone, hopefully it helps cause I have been pulling my hair out trying to figure this thing out!