Multi Custom CO2 Trail Tire Kit.

William

William

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I want to bring this back up and discuss a revision to this kit.
Many of out there have been having trouble getting Co2 bottles refilled.
I was talking to my brother in law yesterday,he installs soft drink dispenser systems. He mention maybe converting these to use nitrogen. He mention that a nitrogen refill system would be more efficient for a person that wanted to do it yourself. Plus you could refill some shocks with Schrader valves and use for all your tire needs.

What's your thoughts?
Nitrogen is definitely the way to go. It is very easy to have filled also, although they may not fill the tank you have... AirGas is where we get them filled at work. We rent tanks from them.
 
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Ultrasonic1

Ultrasonic1

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Nitrogen is definitely the way to go. It is very easy to have filled also, although they may not fill the tank you have... AirGas is where we get them filled at work. We rent tanks from them.
Yep, a lot of the welding supply will exchange bottles but not refill. It was gonna cost me several hundred dollars to get a larger bottle to refill my own smaller ones. So it wasn’t really gonna be worth it.
 
Fro

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I bought a CO2 bottle with the internal tube from my local welding supply store for about $112. It’ll cost me about $30 to have it exchanged for another full bottle. I’m still on my first bottle and I’ve refilled my paintball bottle several times now.
 
snuffnwhisky

snuffnwhisky

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Pretty sure CO2 stays around 800 psi where nitrogen is usually 3-5,000 psi so different tanks and regulators and you need the highest psi nitro tank you can get to match the volume output of CO2 and still might be less with the same size tank.
 
ohanacreek

ohanacreek

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Hadn’t looked into Nitrogen, it might be an option to get a LARGE LowPressure steel SCUBA tank and a SCUBA “pony” bottle. There’s quite a few dive shops in most areas that can fill your tanks fairly quickly.

Still needs a VIS every 5 and a Hydro every 10.





I went to AIRGAS Inc and got a large CO2 tank (20 or 30pound I think) swapped and I have refilled at lease 6-7 20oz paintball tanks off it without any real pressure drop from it. It was only $30 for the swap and @$30-35 for the fill kit from Amazon. I already had it so I am not sure the purchase price of the tank itself. If you already have the paintball tanks this would probably be the most economical option. Paintball tanks are rated for 1800psi with I “THINK” a 1200psi burst disc. The large tank I have is only filled to 800psi. So it should not be possible to over pressure the paintball tanks. However DO NOT carry them in the passenger compartment of your vehicle IF they were to release their contents it’d be a bad day for you.
 
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Ultrasonic1

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@ohanacreek are you using paintball bottles for your tire refill?
 
BigOL3

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I think I will check into building one of these also. IIRC I have a portable CO2 container that came with my MIG rid, that I have never used. It may be bigger than 20oz.
 
ohanacreek

ohanacreek

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@ohanacreek are you using paintball bottles for your tire refill?

I have 2 bottles I refill from the large tank I got swapped from Gas supplier, using the Amazon refill kit.

The link below is NOT the one I bought, I bought the ALEKO brand but it’s identical in appearance like most stuff on Amazon.
Amazon.com: G1/2 CO2 Cylinder Refill Adapter Bottle Connector CO2 Tank Soda Maker Accessories with Hose for Filling Sodastream Tank(36inch-With Gauge): Kitchen & Dining
 
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Tramguage1

Tramguage1

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Co2 and Nitrogen are totally different products. Co2 is liquid and you only get a certain amount of transfer from a big tank to small tank.
Nitrogen on the other hand is a gas and you can get 100% of the large tank pressure into the small refill tank.
This is what I got out of a short conversation with a Co2/ Nitrogen distributor.
I will get more info next time I get out that way.
 
CMB

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Fundamentally; air, oxygen and nitrogen will all behave exactly the same in terms of pressure change for each 10 degrees of temperature change. However temperature alone is not the whole story.

Ambient air contains moisture, nitrogen does not. If moisture is present it contributes to a greater change in pressure simply because at lower temperatures water condenses to become a liquid. The liquid form of water occupies very little volume and contributes only a negligible pressure to the tire. But at higher temperatures, such as those in a running tire, water evaporates inside the tire and becomes a gas which increases pressure in the tire.

Ambient air contains about 21% oxygen. Oxygen’s smaller molecular size allows it to permeate through the rubber of the tire. By inflating with nitrogen, which is much less permeable than oxygen, the pressure changes due to oxygen loss are greatly reduced.

The racing industry is correct; nitrogen is more predictable. Because nitrogen is dry it has no moisture to contribute extra pressure changes with temperature. Because nitrogen permeates out much slower than oxygen pressure changes due to that leakage are almost eliminated compared with ambient air.

Let’s get a little deeper into the science. Keep in mind that the air in your tires changes about 1psi for every 10 degree temperature change. This means that a significant change in temperature will create a significant change in your tire pressure. Here is a set of Ideal Gas Law calculations showing the effects of a 10F degree temperature change on truck and passenger tires. The two sets of data represent different initial temperatures of 60F and 90F. This demonstrates that the magnitude of the pressure fluctuation differs depending on initial conditions but only slightly.
 
ohanacreek

ohanacreek

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Here’s the setup

9F2280DD 030D 4E0B 82C4 3E160BB617B3
 
Smitty335

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Fundamentally; air, oxygen and nitrogen will all behave exactly the same in terms of pressure change for each 10 degrees of temperature change. However temperature alone is not the whole story.

Ambient air contains moisture, nitrogen does not. If moisture is present it contributes to a greater change in pressure simply because at lower temperatures water condenses to become a liquid. The liquid form of water occupies very little volume and contributes only a negligible pressure to the tire. But at higher temperatures, such as those in a running tire, water evaporates inside the tire and becomes a gas which increases pressure in the tire.

Ambient air contains about 21% oxygen. Oxygen’s smaller molecular size allows it to permeate through the rubber of the tire. By inflating with nitrogen, which is much less permeable than oxygen, the pressure changes due to oxygen loss are greatly reduced.

The racing industry is correct; nitrogen is more predictable. Because nitrogen is dry it has no moisture to contribute extra pressure changes with temperature. Because nitrogen permeates out much slower than oxygen pressure changes due to that leakage are almost eliminated compared with ambient air.

Let’s get a little deeper into the science. Keep in mind that the air in your tires changes about 1psi for every 10 degree temperature change. This means that a significant change in temperature will create a significant change in your tire pressure. Here is a set of Ideal Gas Law calculations showing the effects of a 10F degree temperature change on truck and passenger tires. The two sets of data represent different initial temperatures of 60F and 90F. This demonstrates that the magnitude of the pressure fluctuation differs depending on initial conditions but only slightly.
Interesting? So do race teams seat the bead on tires with air then evacuate all the air with a vacuum like you would use on a refrigeration system and install nitrogen?
 

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