P1000 Wheel spacer math??

[RB3offroad]

From personal experience I like having the 1"spacers on my Honda Pioneer 1000-5 not to much just enough. I could tell the difference in the desert trails and rock trails.

 

[Admin]

 

[Ragnar406]

i like this thread, when I removed my roof over the summer I was surprised that I noticed the weight reduction right away. I did not even consider the possibility of a change when I removed it. Just wanted some sun lol.

So what does moving the position of the shocks do? Like the Highlifter lift does to the machine. Besides changing the design intent of the shocks in how they work.

 

[trigger]

Way too many variables and even with the accurate math it still comes down to how it feels in the seat. I've ran stock, taller tires with stock wheels, stock wheels with spacers, aftermarket wheels and aftermarket wheels with spacers on a P5. I've added weight high and low and everywhere in between. Even if the math said that I was back to stock COG, the stock COG sucked anyway. Spacers are fine if you get quality ones with tapered lugs and install them with thread locker.

 

[JACKAL]

Has anyone done the math on what you gain or don’t gain from adding spacers or not? I realize there are a ton of variables that can change COG.. just curious on a base line though. If you have stock machine with stock wheels and put it on an incline vs a machine with lift on the incline vs a machine with lift and spacers on the incline. What kind of degrees of stabilization and change do spacers and height actually gain and decrease the machine from stock.

Maybe I can save you a lot of head scratching, ciphering, and consternation. Relevant to what @lee has been pointing out. The whole lift & spacer thing really is only a poor man's means to an end to gain clearance to run tires way bigger than the machine was designed for. A lift in my considerable experience does not make a notable improvement in clearing typical riding situations, spacers really don't effectively enhance stability on a SXS they push the tires out on the front so you have steering clearance on those big ass oversize tires that otherwise rub in OEM geometry.

The width, height, clearance really makes a positive difference in say 10% of the situations and can be detrimental the other 90% especially if you account for added wear and stress on the components. Not to mention maneuverability and added bump steer incurred.

Still there will be those that cling to thier seat if the pants belief that thier $400 lift and spacers make a huge difference, they don't. Now if you spent $6k and did it right with better shocks, A-arms with different geometry, longer axles etc. Then as a whole if designed to work together could improve handling and stability.

That being said, after 3000 miles on my P1K running a 2" lift and 28x10 tires I will be running near OEM on its replacement. I have a 2018 P1K5LE coming this week and will not add a lift, simple switch to tougher tires of true height 27x9 front and 27x11 rear radial Roctane XD's they alone are 2" taller than the OEM 27" rubber but will not require any half assed adapt-o- fit hillbilly engineering ( lift & spacers) to work.

I am a firm believer in the American model of buying all the confidence you can afford, but like all the rock lights etc. It may look great in the driveway but does it really help on the trail? Simply a matter of personal opinion.

As far as tipping point on the fly, use experience and the gray matter between your ears to determine the best path forward giving consideration to how heavy or light you are loaded and cargo. Success and failure is a cognizant choice, choose wisely and proceed with caution. LOL

 

[RB3offroad]

The good thing about our spacers is that we supply lugs and we mill ours with the ball seat just like your rims. This way your wheels will be aligned. But personal preference is all it comes down to. The wheel base on the pioneer is slightly smaller and if you ride pre-ridden trails you can tell a difference with or without spacers.

 

[ohanacreek]

Maybe I can save you a lot of head scratching, ciphering, and consternation. Relevant to what @lee has been pointing out. The whole lift & spacer thing really is only a poor man's means to an end to gain clearance to run tires way bigger than the machine was designed for. A lift in my considerable experience does not make a notable improvement in clearing typical riding situations, spacers really don't effectively enhance stability on a SXS they push the tires out on the front so you have steering clearance on those big ass oversize tires that otherwise rub in OEM geometry.

The width, height, clearance really makes a positive difference in say 10% of the situations and can be detrimental the other 90% especially if you account for added wear and stress on the components. Not to mention maneuverability and added bump steer incurred.

Still there will be those that cling to thier seat if the pants belief that thier $400 lift and spacers make a huge difference, they don't. Now if you spent $6k and did it right with better shocks, A-arms with different geometry, longer axles etc. Then as a whole if designed to work together could improve handling and stability.

That being said, after 3000 miles on my P1K running a 2" lift and 28x10 tires I will be running near OEM on its replacement. I have a 2018 P1K5LE coming this week and will not add a lift, simple switch to tougher tires of true height 27x9 front and 27x11 rear radial Roctane XD's they alone are 2" taller than the OEM 27" rubber but will not require any half assed adapt-o- fit hillbilly engineering ( lift & spacers) to work.

I am a firm believer in the American model of buying all the confidence you can afford, but like all the rock lights etc. It may look great in the driveway but does it really help on the trail? Simply a matter of personal opinion.

As far as tipping point on the fly, use experience and the gray matter between your ears to determine the best path forward giving consideration to how heavy or light you are loaded and cargo. Success and failure is a cognizant choice, choose wisely and proceed with caution. LOL

I'm with you, I added arched arms to get clearance for 30" tires and some extra ground clearance, but I have ridden since day 1 on the factory tires which are only 26" in actual height and I have been able to go anywhere I wasn't afraid to point it. Forgoing mud, I only go through it if I HAVE to, I hate cleaning 500lbs of mud off then cleaning the driveway.

However I have been careful with them and still have some shallow cuts and a pinch. So I have 28" actual height Evos on order, instead of 30" actual height roctanes, it will end up @1" taller off the ground. I want to keep it as close to stock width so if I have to add spacers to the rear to get the stock offset so be it. I don't want to but in theory the only downside is the 4 extra lug nuts I have to check, as the wheel would have the equivalent offset built in if I bought the wheels, but it will be nice to have a spare that can go front or rear.

Shocks are on the way but I am not using them for a lift kit. I am going to try to keep the ride hight the same with the same tires, this thing is a mt goat as long as you keep its tires planted.

It does really well on its own, as a fact you have to pick a good line or its gonna tip or roll, driving style makes a big difference. Watch @joeymt33 RZR roll video one machine went right up and the second took an awesomely bad roll down and I would dare say it was driving style. Just because the machine can do it doesn't mean YOU can make the machine do it, but with practice and experience you can get to that point.

I would bet Bo Jackson using a wooden bat could still 30 years after his prime hit a baseball further than I could with the best aluminum bat out there.


Knock the rock lights if you want but they have helped me on the last night ride(mine are mounted to actually light up outside the tires and infront/behind them not make the underside glow with the music), makes it easier to tie it down at night, and I ended up using them for visibility without blinding kids with the headlights on Halloween which was not a planned use.

 

[JACKAL]

@JTW all the math you need to know, see equation below.

 

[lee]

@JACKAL I like that quote, so I'm steeling it.
Steeling other peoples ideas is what @Hondasxs created this site for right?

@JTW it sounds like what you need is:
- long travel suspension
- open fenders that will accept over size tires
- low center of gravity with a short ROPS
- big power with out a rubber band drive
Let me think for a moment, which Pioneer best fits your needs....

If we get this figured out I have a quote for you, in the immortal words of department store Santa, "you'll shoot your eye out kid".

 

[ohanacreek]

@JACKAL I like that quote, so I'm steeling it.
Steeling other peoples ideas is what @Hondasxs created this site for right?

@JTW it sounds like what you need is:
- long travel suspension
- open fenders that will accept over size tires
- low center of gravity with a short ROPS
- big power with out a rubber band drive
Let me think for a moment, which Pioneer best fits your needs....

If we get this figured out I have a quote for you, in the immortal words of department store Santa, "you'll shoot your eye out kid".

If we get this figured out, I want one....

 

[JACKAL]

If we get this figured out, I want one....

Here it is, coming next Christmas at a Honda dealership near you.

Future - Rumor - First Look - Honda's new 5 link rear suspension!

 

[Smitty335]

Maybe I can save you a lot of head scratching, ciphering, and consternation. Relevant to what @lee has been pointing out. The whole lift & spacer thing really is only a poor man's means to an end to gain clearance to run tires way bigger than the machine was designed for. A lift in my considerable experience does not make a notable improvement in clearing typical riding situations, spacers really don't effectively enhance stability on a SXS they push the tires out on the front so you have steering clearance on those big ass oversize tires that otherwise rub in OEM geometry.

The width, height, clearance really makes a positive difference in say 10% of the situations and can be detrimental the other 90% especially if you account for added wear and stress on the components. Not to mention maneuverability and added bump steer incurred.

Still there will be those that cling to thier seat if the pants belief that thier $400 lift and spacers make a huge difference, they don't. Now if you spent $6k and did it right with better shocks, A-arms with different geometry, longer axles etc. Then as a whole if designed to work together could improve handling and stability.

That being said, after 3000 miles on my P1K running a 2" lift and 28x10 tires I will be running near OEM on its replacement. I have a 2018 P1K5LE coming this week and will not add a lift, simple switch to tougher tires of true height 27x9 front and 27x11 rear radial Roctane XD's they alone are 2" taller than the OEM 27" rubber but will not require any half assed adapt-o- fit hillbilly engineering ( lift & spacers) to work.

I am a firm believer in the American model of buying all the confidence you can afford, but like all the rock lights etc. It may look great in the driveway but does it really help on the trail? Simply a matter of personal opinion.

As far as tipping point on the fly, use experience and the gray matter between your ears to determine the best path forward giving consideration to how heavy or light you are loaded and cargo. Success and failure is a cognizant choice, choose wisely and proceed with caution. LOL

Gosh, Jackal, what are you trying to say? I'm not a mudder either. I have busted two front tires, 1 stock and a 1 8 ply. I have never had issues with the rear 8 plies, I believe I need to run the same size tires on all four corners to keep from busting front tires and the only way to elevate tire rub is to go with forward and rear arched a arms and 30 inch tires, no lift. I want to run stock width, haven't checked to see if that is possible yet in the front. With no spacers. Has any one done this?

 

[ohanacreek]

Here it is, coming next Christmas at a Honda dealership near you.

Future - Rumor - First Look - Honda's new 5 link rear suspension!

If that’s true my name is Santa Clause!

 

[JACKAL]

Gosh, Jackal, what are you trying to say? I'm not a mudder either. I have busted two front tires, 1 stock and a 1 8 ply. I have never had issues with the rear 8 plies, I believe I need to run the same size tires on all four corners to keep from busting front tires and the only way to elevate tire rub is to go with forward and rear arched a arms and 30 inch tires, no lift. I want to run stock width, haven't checked to see if that is possible yet in the front. With no spacers. Has any one done this?

I don't run spacers and use 6+1 offset wheels on the 28x10x14 tires. Front width is 62" on mine so yes it's possible.

 

[Smitty335]

I don't run spacers and use 6+1 offset wheels on the 28x10x14 tires. Front width is 62" on mine so yes it's possible.

Rear tire width is according to service manual is 1.9 inches narrower than the front and the rear rim is 2.5 inches wider, so could I get 1 inch more positive dish on the back and run almost same width front and rear? I have to measure the off set tomorrow and look at wheel options.

 

[JACKAL]

Rear tire width is according to service manual is 1.9 inches narrower than the front and the rear rim is 2.5 inches wider, so could I get 1 inch more positive dish on the back and run almost same width front and rear? I have to measure the off set tomorrow and look at wheel options.

Either run 6+1 in front with 5+2 in rear for same track and stay about stock width.

 

[Smitty335]

Either run 6+1 in front with 5+2 in rear for same track and stay about stock width.

Not seeing any wheels with the 6+1 or the 5+2 yet!

 

[JACKAL]

Not seeing any wheels with the 6+1 or the 5+2 yet!

All you had to do is look at my build thread.

STI HD3 wheels are offered in that offset and bolt pattern.

 

[Smitty335]

All you had to do is look at my build thread.

STI HD3 wheels are offered in that offset and bolt pattern.

Thank you!

 

[Ragnar406]

@JACKAL I like that quote, so I'm steeling it.
Steeling other peoples ideas is what @Hondasxs created this site for right?

@JTW it sounds like what you need is:
- long travel suspension
- open fenders that will accept over size tires
- low center of gravity with a short ROPS
- big power with out a rubber band drive
Let me think for a moment, which Pioneer best fits your needs....

If we get this figured out I have a quote for you, in the immortal words of department store Santa, "you'll shoot your eye out kid".

They make safety glasses...just saying

 

[Smitty335]

They make safety glasses...just saying

Remember Steve Martin in the Jerk with his safety glasses?