P1000 Stinger Question for dual battery

[Scoop]

I was going to connect the winch contactor positive directly to the stinger on the key-on side. It happens to be very close to the winch contactor, so a clean easy install. The Stinger relay also has larger posts with lots of room for the winch positive cable. Is that a bad idea? In my mind it will only have power when the key is on, since the Stinger only gets power when the key is on. Do you or others with electrical expertise see any issues with this approach? I can definitely connect the winch contactor directly to the 2nd battery if that's a better way to go. Thanks.

There are two "positive" wires you're dealing with from the contactor/solenoid: A very thick one (that carries the high amperage load that ultimately powers the winch) and a very thin one that acts as the "switch" that tells the contactor/solenoid when to allow that high amperage load to travel through the contactor/solenoid TO the winch (this one is usually part of a harness that connects the contactor to your physical dash switch).

You do NOT want the thick wire one on the switched side of the Stinger relay. The Stinger is not rated to carry the high amps required by the winch. Ideally, this wire should be connected directly to the positive post of the AUX battery (and the thick negative cable form the contactor connected to the negative post of the AUX battery). If you don't have room for the thick positive wire to connect directly to the positive post of the AUX battery, you can connect it to the supply side post (the other thick post) on the Stinger (so the power doesn't have to travel though the Stinger to get to the battery).

The thin positive cable from the contactor (the 'switch' wire that pulls very little amperage) is best connected to the switched side of the Stinger relay, typically to your switched fuse block so that it only "switches" the power on and makes it available for the winch if you have the ignition on.

 

[Admin]

 

[Sarbuck]

There are two "positive" wires you're dealing with from the contactor/solenoid: A very thick one (that carries the high amperage load that ultimately powers the winch) and a very thin one that acts as the "switch" that tells the contactor/solenoid when to allow that high amperage load to travel through the contactor/solenoid TO the winch (this one is usually part of a harness that connects the contactor to your physical dash switch).

You do NOT want the thick wire one on the switched side of the Stinger relay. The Stinger is not rated to carry the high amps required by the winch. Ideally, this wire should be connected directly to the positive post of the AUX battery (and the thick negative cable form the contactor connected to the negative post of the AUX battery). If you don't have room for the thick positive wire to connect directly to the positive post of the AUX battery, you can connect it to the supply side post (the other thick post) on the Stinger (so the power doesn't have to travel though the Stinger to get to the battery).

The thin positive cable from the contactor (the 'switch' wire that pulls very little amperage) is best connected to the switched side of the Stinger relay, typically to your switched fuse block so that it only "switches" the power on and makes it available for the winch if you have the ignition on.

Thanks for the thorough and prompt reply. Although I'm still a bit confused about the not using the stinger, it will be easy for me to just connect both winch heavy cables to the 2nd battery, and then connect the wireless remote/switch wiring to the second fuse box I installed. Sounds like that's the way to go. Thanks again for your help! My setup before winch install attached. If you see any red flags let me know. I am not an electrician, but between YouTube and this forum, I'm getting there.

 

[bumperm]

Thanks for the thorough and prompt reply. Although I'm still a bit confused about the not using the stinger, it will be easy for me to just connect both winch heavy cables to the 2nd battery, and then connect the wireless remote/switch wiring to the second fuse box I installed. Sounds like that's the way to go. Thanks again for your help! My setup before winch install attached. If you see any red flags let me know. I am not an electrician, but between YouTube and this forum, I'm getting there.

There's more'n one way to do things right. So not saying Scoop is wrong, but consider the following:

Scoop said, "The thin positive cable from the contactor (the 'switch' wire that pulls very little amperage) is best connected to the switched side of the Stinger relay, typically to your switched fuse block so that it only "switches" the power on and makes it available for the winch if you have the ignition on."

If you wire as Scoop suggests, with contactor positive to the swiched side of the Stinger relay, you must have the ignition key on to use the winch . . . this could spell trouble in some situations where the winch is needed but the engine, for whatever reason, can't be run and/or the main battery is dead. Even if the main battery is not DOA, but the engine cannot be run for whatever reason, then needing the ignition switch on to winch will put an unnecessary burden on the main battery during the recovery - (think ignition related stuff like the ECU powered up for no reason). One of the prime advantages of having all things "winch" wired to the Aux side only, is to save the main battery for starting and running the machine once you get yourself hauled out of your predicament!

Wired as I'm suggesting, with winch, winch contactor, winch switching, and wireless winch receiver (if installed), all powered by Aux battery keeps things simple and separate. If the engine is operable, then with the True battery isolator, the engine's electrical system will still be helping charge the Aux battery during winching - so nothing lost in having everything winch related on the Aux side, while some potential pitfalls of the need for key-on are avoided.

 

[Sarbuck]

There's more'n one way to do things right. So not saying Scoop is wrong, but consider the following:

Scoop said, "The thin positive cable from the contactor (the 'switch' wire that pulls very little amperage) is best connected to the switched side of the Stinger relay, typically to your switched fuse block so that it only "switches" the power on and makes it available for the winch if you have the ignition on."

If you wire as Scoop suggests, with contactor positive to the swiched side of the Stinger relay, you must have the ignition key on to use the winch . . . this could spell trouble in some situations where the winch is needed but the engine, for whatever reason, can't be run and/or the main battery is dead. Even if the main battery is not DOA, but the engine cannot be run for whatever reason, then needing the ignition switch on to winch will put an unnecessary burden on the main battery during the recovery - (think ignition related stuff like the ECU powered up for no reason). One of the prime advantages of having all things "winch" wired to the Aux side only, is to save the main battery for starting and running the machine once you get yourself hauled out of your predicament!

Wired as I'm suggesting, with winch, winch contactor, winch switching, and wireless winch receiver (if installed), all powered by Aux battery keeps things simple and separate. If the engine is operable, then with the True battery isolator, the engine's electrical system will still be helping charge the Aux battery during winching - so nothing lost in having everything winch related on the Aux side, while some potential pitfalls of the need for key-on are avoided.

I hadn't thought about a situation like you described when trying to winch out. So, you are suggesting I wire the heavy gauge winch cables directly to the aux battery from the winch contactor, got it. Where do the small gauge wires for the dash switch and wireless receiver get connected to power and ground? Aux battery posts? I would have connected to my new fuse box, but that is key on power which you are recommending against for good reasons. Sorry for all the q's, but I want to get this right. Thanks for your and Scoop's help!

 

[Scoop]

As @bumperm noted, there's no one "right" way. Some wire up the contactor/solenoid to the key-on side of things while others want it able to operation the winch even with they key off. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

I opted for the key-on power for a couple of reasons. One, I see the likelihood that I'd need to have the key-off and winching for any extended period of time as a rare event for me. For example, I'm not one to swamp my machine in 4 foot of water where having the key on or engine running would not be a wise choice. Second, I'm not a big fan of most anything being wired "always on" due to the risk of running a battery down due to a short, a component failure, etc. Another forum member also keeps pointing out that, if you have a wireless remote for your winch and the contactor/solenoid is wired always-on (without at least a switch on the dash to kill it manually), RF interference could trigger that winch to operate ... something that can't happen if the switch wire for the contactor/solenoid is on the key-on side of things.

You have to decide which was is best for YOUR liking and comfort level. Again, there is no one right way.

 

[Hillbillytnt]

My switches are run through my second fuse box. It’s controlled with a master on/off/on switch so it will work with key on or off. It’s an option you might consider

 

[Sarbuck]

Thanks all. I've seen before anytime anyone brings up the electrical options in the Forum, a string of options are sure to follow. Always good advice and no single correct answer. I think I'll route winch power directly to the second battery, and switch and remote power through the key-on fuse box. That was my original plan, and makes the most sense for me and my riding style. If I ever get stuck without key-on power to run the winch off the aux battery, I'll do some field rewiring to get the power I need. If that isn't possible, I must have really f'd up and will probably need to hitch a ride or start walking.

I'm still curious though @bumperm, if you wire it like you recommended, do you just connect the small gauge switch and wireless receiver wiring directly to the aux battery posts for power, just like the winch heavy gauge cables? If you do that, do you need to add an inline fuse for protection for that smaller wiring to the switch and receiver?

 

[Scoop]

My switches are run through my second fuse box. It’s controlled with a master on/off/on switch so it will work with key on or off. It’s an option you might consider

I have the damn DPDT switch from the club store to be able to go key-on or direct for my accessory fuse block ... I just have to get off my arse and get it wired up!

 

[bumperm]

Thanks all. I've seen before anytime anyone brings up the electrical options in the Forum, a string of options are sure to follow. Always good advice and no single correct answer. I think I'll route winch power directly to the second battery, and switch and remote power through the key-on fuse box. That was my original plan, and makes the most sense for me and my riding style. If I ever get stuck without key-on power to run the winch off the aux battery, I'll do some field rewiring to get the power I need. If that isn't possible, I must have really f'd up and will probably need to hitch a ride or start walking.

I'm still curious though @bumperm, if you wire it like you recommended, do you just connect the small gauge switch and wireless receiver wiring directly to the aux battery posts for power, just like the winch heavy gauge cables? If you do that, do you need to add an inline fuse for protection for that smaller wiring to the switch and receiver?

Good questions, Sarbuck,

Firstly though, I'm no doubt the one Scoop referred to, as I've cautioned in several threads that it's a good idea that the wireless winch control receiver should have a kill/enable switch on the dash - that would the round rocker switch on the far right, bottom row (the one directly underneath the radio allows radio to operate "key-off". (See below for more).

My SE came delivered with a winch from Honda. As stock, the winch contactor heavy wires were connected to the main battery - no circuit breaker or fusing, though the small contactor + wire was (IIRC) fused. One had only to plug the wired remote into the glovebox jack, to operate the winch, worked key-off.

One of the first add-ons I did was an Aux battery. I moved the winch system over to Aux. Contactor heavy + wire goes to the same point as 2nd battery positive (it actually goes to that terminal of the True). I also moved the winch contactor's small + to the new aux fuse block "always on" power side (I have the other side of the new fuse block key-on through a "stinger" type relay).

I have the original, Honda supplied, wired remote, but never use it, it only reaches to about the front of the sxs - the remote receiver is more convenient and only cost $20 on Amazon. Wireless Receiver

Hope I didn't forget anything!

 

[Notnim]

I'd like to jump in here, I'm a new owner having recently purchased a used 2020, 1000-5. Previous owner installed an aux battery to directly power a Boss audio and rear LED lights. The aux battery is just wired parallel with main battery. So the accessories are hot with key switch off. I have ordered the isolator kit, stinger, fuse block, buss bars etc. in order to properly wire this dual battery set up. I also will be installing a winch at this time, with a corded remote switch as well as a dash mounted rocker switch. After reading about all the issues with the Stinger, I'm really not clear why it is needed to power the additional fuse block, since all accessories will be switched anyway. Maybe someone can clarify for me??. Thanks.

 

[Scoop]

I'd like to jump in here, I'm a new owner having recently purchased a used 2020, 1000-5. Previous owner installed an aux battery to directly power a Boss audio and rear LED lights. The aux battery is just wired parallel with main battery. So the accessories are hot with key switch off. I have ordered the isolator kit, stinger, fuse block, buss bars etc. in order to properly wire this dual battery set up. I also will be installing a winch at this time, with a corded remote switch as well as a dash mounted rocker switch. After reading about all the issues with the Stinger, I'm really not clear why it is needed to power the additional fuse block, since all accessories will be switched anyway. Maybe someone can clarify for me??. Thanks.

The primary purpose of the relay is to energize the fuse block only when the ignition key is turned on. When the key is off, the fuse block is not energized. This ensures all your accessories are OFF and not draining a battery (unlike your current setup).

AUX battery (+) -> Stinger relay -> Fuse block -> Accessories

Generally speaking, the only things you want connected directly to the AUX battery directly are:

• A (thick) lead from the isolator (the other side of which goes to the 12V on the primary battery)
• High amp draw accessories, such as your winch
• The fuse block

All your low amp draw accessories should be powered (and fused) through the fuse block.

Optionally, you can add a DPDT switch that allows you to choose, on the fly, if you want accessories to ONLY be powered when the key is on OR if you want them to work even when the key is off.

EDIT: Welcome to the forums! PICTURES OR YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE ONE !!

 

[Notnim]

Ok, makes perfect sense now, the DPDT switch is a great idea, that was in the back of my mind, such as if I wanted to play the radio for a while while parked, I didn't like the idea of having the key switch on all the time, this switch would take care of that. What is your opinion of the Stinger, I'm thinking maybe I should go with a different model??
Thanks for the quick reply, this is a great site, looking forward to reading a lot more!

 

[Scoop]

What is your opinion of the Stinger, I'm thinking maybe I should go with a different model??

No personal experience with the Stinger, but many here (and elsewhere) have said to avoid it, especially if you live in a climate where it gets cold enough to freeze.

The Stinger isn't sealed, so moisture gets inside of it and then it freezes up.

Being from Michigan, I went for the Cole Hersee Cole Hersee 24117-01-BP 65A continuous duty marine rated relay. Others who have employed that instead seem to like it and report no real issues.

It's $5 cheaper now then when I bought mine back on 02 NOV 2021: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001Q8KONI?tag=sxsweb24-20

 

[WagginTail]

Ok, makes perfect sense now, the DPDT switch is a great idea, that was in the back of my mind, such as if I wanted to play the radio for a while while parked, I didn't like the idea of having the key switch on all the time, this switch would take care of that. What is your opinion of the Stinger, I'm thinking maybe I should go with a different model??
Thanks for the quick reply, this is a great site, looking forward to reading a lot more!

X2 on what Scoop said. I had 2 Stingers go bad on my pioneer. Didn't have the moisture issue like most people did. They just quit working. Here's a pic of my switches. Bottom left turns on my accessories. Up position is powered only with key on. Down position will power accessories with key off. I definitely like this set up.
Welcome to the club. Hurry up and post some pics of that ride

 

[bumperm]

^^^ Previous comments

A key-off switched relay ("Stinger" brand name is almost a generic name for this, but as Scoop says, there are better options), is nice for most things that you wouldn't find a need for when parked. Turn key off, walk away. Some things you might want to use when key-off include:

Winch (or wench)
"Work or convenience" lights, might include pod or back up lights, as their current draw is reasonable, typically less than 1 amp, each. A big light bar bar might not be a good idea due to relatively high current draw (my 54" Nilight draws over 16 amps), the risk being in discharging the battery.
Radio
Horn
Rocket launcher or laser weapons

 

[Notnim]

All good ideas to consider, thanks!

 

[Trouthunter]

Hi, quick question. My machine is in the garage 270 miles from me. I am compiling parts for the auxiliary battery install and would like to know the wire gauge of the heavy battery wires so I can order an extra set of jumpers. Is it 6awg or 4awg?

 

[Hondasxs]

6g is fine. This is what TrueAM uses.
4g would also be fine.


Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[Neohio]

Hi, quick question. My machine is in the garage 270 miles from me. I am compiling parts for the auxiliary battery install and would like to know the wire gauge of the heavy battery wires so I can order an extra set of jumpers. Is it 6awg or 4awg?

Make sure the cables you are using are pure copper or OFC. Stay away from CCA cables.

Ofc is oxygen free copper
Cca is copper clad aluminum.