P500 p5 suspension

[Chooglin]

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!

Merry Christmas to you too

 

[Admin]

 

[solrus]

Just left house , just google Eibach ID 2.25"

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[Montecresto]

I looked at Eibach spring catalog and they have springs starting from ID 1.88" 10-12" long, then 2.25" 10-12", then 2.5" and up

Will 2.25 will work for you? Get 10" long and fabricate aluminum insert or crank more preload nut.

Hey solrus, could you do me a favor buddy and give me the measurement of the bottom mounting end of the stock front shocks, where the bushings are, sense you have them off and they're handy, when you're in your shop next of course. Thank you.

 

[solrus]

Will do, no problem.

I hope I will get right measuments. If u could draw where to measure, just to make sure.

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[solrus]

I've started going for Christmas dinners since Thursday

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[Montecresto]

Will do, no problem.

I hope I will get right measuments. If u could draw where to measure, just to make sure.

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Ok, when I get back from my own Christmas dinner, I'll draw something up for you. Thanks

 

[iowaguy]

Thanks for the input.

I think the setup I currently have is the best it's going to get , as far as the bracket location. I will get it figured out , as long as I can find a lower rate spring that will fit on the progressive shocks.

These springs are stiff , they should be on a 3/4 ton truck. I find it hard to believe they used them on the Rhinos.

I wish I knew the spring rate of the stock rear shocks , I would want something a little stiffer than that !

I'm thinking that a spring is rated by however much weight it takes to compress it an inch,I could be wrong thou,there has to be someone out there that knows the formula for this, back in the day when I was involved in racing we had a guy that would set the springs on a bathroom scale on a drill press and compress the spring with the head an inch and read the LB. on the scale to determine which springs were stiffer for the setup we would be running, don't know how scientific it was but it worked.

 

[solrus]

I think those mite work , you have a link ?

These are accessories for Eibach springs, but they list all their spring sizes too
http://eibach.com/sites/eibach.com.m-america/files/catalogs/ERS_19_applications.pdf

Found here also , just type in goodle 2.25" eibach ID

it will pop up Application Look-up COIL-OVER | 2.25" I.D.

 

[Chooglin]

I'm thinking that a spring is rated by however much weight it takes to compress it an inch,I could be wrong thou,there has to be someone out there that knows the formula for this, back in the day when I was involved in racing we had a guy that would set the springs on a bathroom scale on a drill press and compress the spring with the head an inch and read the LB. on the scale to determine which springs were stiffer for the setup we would be running, don't know how scientific it was but it worked.

I'm not really sure how to check spring rate.
If I can find a spring that will fit in the 200 lb range , that is what I am going to try next.

 

[Chooglin]

These are accessories for Eibach springs, but they list all their spring sizes too
http://eibach.com/sites/eibach.com.m-america/files/catalogs/ERS_19_applications.pdf

Found here also , just type in goodle 2.25" eibach ID

it will pop up Application Look-up COIL-OVER | 2.25" I.D.

Thanks , this is really going to help me find the springs I need.

 

[Montecresto]

Not the best drawing lol, but I hope this properly conveys what I need.

Will do, no problem.

I hope I will get right measuments. If u could draw where to measure, just to make sure.

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[solrus]

Thanks , this is really going to help me find the springs I need.

Choo , I want to rethink your set up, just not enough leverage to compress shocks and also less travel with straighter , with more vertical shock set up. From my reading , I would suggest to use stock lower mount but come up with weld on top mount.
Our rear shocks only 4 " travel, unless you get 10" long travel shocks , the current set up even with lower spring rate most likely will not work.

Take spring off from new shocks, and check how much travel u get .

Based on what I've read and talking to ChrisC I decided to go with ChrisC mount kit that he made for me ( based on Jak set up). I don't want to resell mine 429 shocks. Already invested a bit in my front shocks.

I will think your set up over and come up with drawings. Try to measure travel with your new mount and 425 shocks with no springs

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[Chooglin]

I understand what your saying and I agree. But I think you will find that the 429 shocks will be to stiff, even with your setup.

What I plan on doing is possibly going back to my original setup with 200 lbs springs.........not sure yet !

I will be removing the springs from the shocks tomorrow and checking the travel I have with the current setup!

I hope it works out for you.......keep us posted on the outcome!

 

[solrus]

I cross my fingers . Your front progressive shocks were 110-160 lbs, WE 250 lbs for Rhino. So no precise science here , unless we measure OEM spring rate front and rear.

I want to find shock shop in my small town, may be whoever lives in big cities have better access to them, could use my shocks to dissemble them and get true spring rates for pioneer 500.

Anyone willing to help out? I will ship front and rear shocks for free. Your part is to find shop and ask them to get spring out and measure spring rate.

 

[solrus]

Not the best drawing lol, but I hope this properly conveys what I need.

View attachment 29388

1 inch at the bottom

 

[solrus]

Not the best drawing lol, but I hope this properly conveys what I need.

View attachment 29388

 

[Chooglin]

Here is some info on how to calculate what spring rate you need

Street Performance & Racing Spring Rate Tech | Understanding Spring Rates | QA1 Suspension

 

[chrisC]

Thats a good info on spring rates. the 425 HD shocks when angled in 30 degrees, have 25% less spring rate according to that article.So instead of being 285/485 .....they are 213/360.


I find the 425HD good on the rear. A lighter spring may help the ride for sure,but i never had any thoughts of changing them. The ride isn't "jarring" by any stretch. My riding buddies comment on how my ROPS aren't swinging side to side on a rough trail and they can see the rear suspension "working"unlike the stock setup where i was riding a teeter totter. It is soft enough to articulate well.

On the setup i have, the lower mounting point being further inward on the a arm allows the higher leverage at that point to overcome the shock easier. Also the angle of the shock reduces the effective spring rate.

read this article over a couple times....A lot of math that's over my head ....but you can see the basic principles...
Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world.

- pay attention to the"Practical calculation of the IR"
Anything that affects the "IR" affects the spring rate

spring rate is only part of the puzzle on "suspension design".....which we are in a way... trying to improve

 

[chrisC]

Thats a good info on spring rates. the 425 HD shocks when angled in 30 degrees, have 25% less spring rate according to that article.So instead of being 285/485 .....they are 213/360.


I find the 425HD good on the rear. A lighter spring may help the ride for sure,but i never had any thoughts of changing them. The ride isn't "jarring" by any stretch. My riding buddies comment on how my ROPS aren't swinging side to side on a rough trail and they can see the rear suspension "working"unlike the stock setup where i was riding a teeter totter. It is soft enough to articulate well.

On the setup i have, the lower mounting point being further inward on the a arm allows the higher leverage at that point to overcome the shock easier. Also the angle of the shock reduces the effective spring rate.

read this article over a couple times....A lot of math that's over my head ....but you can see the basic principles...
Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world.

- pay attention to the"Practical calculation of the IR"
Anything that affects the "IR" affects the spring rate

spring rate is only part of the puzzle on "suspension design".....which we are in a way... trying to improve

I just checked my rear shock angle. 45 degrees

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[solrus]

So my correction factor is 0.71 * 240/430= 170/305 for progressive 429 shocks

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