OK, 2 different combos going on here at once. One is related to the clutches sticking or rubbing in gear, and the other is related to my test of letting it roll in the opposite direction to check for rubbing. I believe I accidentally discovered the opposite direction function which is unrelated to clutches sticking in gear causing it to move without giving it the skinny.
Here's one to throw into the mix.
Once it heats up good, and the rubbing starts, it tries to hold itself on a hill without giving it any gas confirming my theory that the clutches are lightly engaging for some reason. It's not RPM related as it is free until I ride it for about 5 miles. I'll clean off the grounds and go through that process and see what happens.
Once it heats up good, and the rubbing starts, it tries to hold itself on a hill without giving it any gas confirming my theory that the clutches are lightly engaging for some reason. It's not RPM related as it is free until I ride it for about 5 miles. I'll clean off the grounds and go through that process and see what happens.
Meanwhile, I'll continue enjoying and giving her hell. She might just be pitching a fit BC I lifted her up and didn't give her no pretty tires and wheels to go along with it.
Have you tried adjusting the range selection shifter? I think I read of someone adjusting that and it quit creeping in forward or reverse. The other symptom you describe is non issue I believe.
Waylan
Waylan
Ya, I did both a month ago. Mine is heat related. I'm thinking possibly the tolerances are so tight that when it heats up the expansion of metals causes them to ever so slightly touch. It doesn't engage enough to even drop the idle any noticeable amount, much less lug. It just creeps forward or backwards when it's in gear and warms up good. When it's cold or just warm, it doesn't do it at all. I'm gonna go through the grounds (good reason to do it anyway, and seems like something I should check regardless) and chalk it up to a non issue and just part of it, and if something comes of it I'll fix it and keep plowing forward. If I do find an issue or it progresses, I will keep the thread informed of my finding. I am not worried about it, just curious if others have same finding. Love my 1000. I really think a good set of 28" Evos and a sound system would fix it. My wife will probably disagree :/
Doesn't everyone know lifting a vehicle requires larger tires and bigger wheels to compensate for the geometric oppositional ground forces caused by the radial disproportion of the new center of gravitational mass being above factory specs? I wander if she'll buy that... Ocean front property in Arizona baby. Ocean front property.
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That issue with it engaging at idle would definitely warrant taking it to a good dealer. Sounds like no good will come of that, mine has never done anything like that, I am a mechanic with 21yrs of being paid to practice so I'd like to think I would have picked up a few things! The ford compacts with dual clutch trans do hold on a hill and engage slowly when you release the brake. Lots of clutches "chatter,shudder" on these and some is normal but I have had people bring them to me asking why they feel jerky, not even realizing that it has no torque converter. I explain it's like an auto mixed with an automatic, a compromise to achieve better effeciency.
Crow_Hunter
Well-Known Member
I tried the same thing that you did on my machine a little while ago. No indication of movement at all sitting on a flat in either forward gears or reverse and I know from past experience that if I stop on a hill and let off the brakes I will freewheel backwards towards the lake at the bottom of the hill
. (NOT FUN)
I have a hypothesis but no way to test it.
There are stack up tolerances in any assembly. Some will be high and some will be low. I believe that on some units that are at the bottom of the tolerance stack, like your machine and Joey's machine are nearly touching while other machines, like mine are to the high side and don't touch at all. That is why your machine and Joey's machine will creep a little when the clutches should be free spinning. They probably aren't actually touching or are just barely kissing but since it is a wet clutch the oil bath likely works something like a torque converter and will impart a small amount of force to the stationary mating surface. Now assuming that the clutch clamping distance is a fixed and the same on all machines, your machines, because they are so close to start with, don't shudder/judder under a load because they are clamped together "tighter" than other machines like mine since frictional forces are directly proportional to the force applied normal to the friction surface. Machines like mine don't have that extra force that the tighter machines do and so when under a good load (like climbing a hill from a stop) they will tend to slip just a little.
That is my guess anyway.
Now is there a way to "touch off" the clutch so that it is set correctly? I would think that there could possibly be something within the system to allow for clutch wear over time. Either an algorithm or a way to "touch off" so the correct spacing is in there. I read a patent from several years ago that Hyundai took out for a DCT "touch off" system to optimize clutch wear. Surely Honda is ahead of them on that.
Could that be part of the "reteach" procedure that Jackal posted?
I asked my dealer mechanic about it....
I am not going down that road.
. (NOT FUN)I have a hypothesis but no way to test it.
There are stack up tolerances in any assembly. Some will be high and some will be low. I believe that on some units that are at the bottom of the tolerance stack, like your machine and Joey's machine are nearly touching while other machines, like mine are to the high side and don't touch at all. That is why your machine and Joey's machine will creep a little when the clutches should be free spinning. They probably aren't actually touching or are just barely kissing but since it is a wet clutch the oil bath likely works something like a torque converter and will impart a small amount of force to the stationary mating surface. Now assuming that the clutch clamping distance is a fixed and the same on all machines, your machines, because they are so close to start with, don't shudder/judder under a load because they are clamped together "tighter" than other machines like mine since frictional forces are directly proportional to the force applied normal to the friction surface. Machines like mine don't have that extra force that the tighter machines do and so when under a good load (like climbing a hill from a stop) they will tend to slip just a little.
That is my guess anyway.
Now is there a way to "touch off" the clutch so that it is set correctly? I would think that there could possibly be something within the system to allow for clutch wear over time. Either an algorithm or a way to "touch off" so the correct spacing is in there. I read a patent from several years ago that Hyundai took out for a DCT "touch off" system to optimize clutch wear. Surely Honda is ahead of them on that.
Could that be part of the "reteach" procedure that Jackal posted?
I asked my dealer mechanic about it....
I am not going down that road.
CumminsPusher
Just a Honda doing Honda things.
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Club Contributor
That's a picture of government testing with the Polaris. They drop these on unexpecting terrorist groups in hopes of either fires or group separation due to mechanical failure
Man, you are dead on what I was thinking. I agree with you it is either tolerance related or EOP related.I tried the same thing that you did on my machine a little while ago. No indication of movement at all sitting on a flat in either forward gears or reverse and I know from past experience that if I stop on a hill and let off the brakes I will freewheel backwards towards the lake at the bottom of the hill
I have a hypothesis but no way to test it.
There are stack up tolerances in any assembly. Some will be high and some will be low. I believe that on some units that are at the bottom of the tolerance stack, like your machine and Joey's machine are nearly touching while other machines, like mine are to the high side and don't touch at all. That is why your machine and Joey's machine will creep a little when the clutches should be free spinning. They probably aren't actually touching or are just barely kissing but since it is a wet clutch the oil bath likely works something like a torque converter and will impart a small amount of force to the stationary mating surface. Now assuming that the clutch clamping distance is a fixed and the same on all machines, your machines, because they are so close to start with, don't shudder/judder under a load because they are clamped together "tighter" than other machines like mine since frictional forces are directly proportional to the force applied normal to the friction surface. Machines like mine don't have that extra force that the tighter machines do and so when under a good load (like climbing a hill from a stop) they will tend to slip just a little.
That is my guess anyway.
Now is there a way to "touch off" the clutch so that it is set correctly? I would think that there could possibly be something within the system to allow for clutch wear over time. Either an algorithm or a way to "touch off" so the correct spacing is in there. I read a patent from several years ago that Hyundai took out for a DCT "touch off" system to optimize clutch wear. Surely Honda is ahead of them on that.
Could that be part of the "reteach" procedure that Jackal posted?
I asked my dealer mechanic about it....
I am not going down that road.
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PioneerPete
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Not here. Couple guys on FB with the issue both said a couple days ago they were informed it wasn't the clutches causing their clutch issues - it was the EOP sensor.
Would make sense. Maybe they act up when they get hot? Bad batch?
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