P1000 Dump Bed has a Serious flaw in my opinion

[Plumber101010]

Well just my 2 cents worth...a DUMP bed should dump. I am just starting my firewood season and I am really not happy if my DUMP bed will not dump. Like others said.....we have a massimo and it dumps when you pull the release. It is hard to get it to lock back sometimes. Lol. The main reason I bought the Honda over a wolverine was a dump bed.

The first sign that there is an issue is trying to lift the bed when it's completely empty. Just pulling the latch on an empty bed with a hydraulic arm, it should immediately shoot straight up in the air. This thing doesn't budge.

If it's a tad difficult to open weightless, than you can imagine adding any kind of weight is useless endeavor!

 

[Admin]

 

[hondabob]

I posted on another site but way more info here. I like the idea of some added supports and using a hand crank up winch from the top of the cage. I would start off with a light load and then go up from there. It really does suck but Honda may make improvements on future production. All the manufacturers read the forums so its important to post up problems like this. Post some pictures of the winch, that will help everyone that does heavy loads.

 

[Russel]

That is a good idea Russell, if I have a heavy load using winch was to drag it up the back! Like a large piece of timber

I'm rethinking and have come up with this. Just take a piece of aluminum channel or steel channel like they sell at Lowe's. Drill two holes and permanently mount on the roof into the roll-bars.

Done deal. Pull out and lay cable in channel! In the old days, big trucks used to have a channel underneath the vehicle and they used the front winch to pull them in reverse.

Already purchased a 3000 pound winch and mount plate that goes into the receiver hitch because as I think of it, I would assume that most of my stuck situations would require me to pull myself out and not forward.

Specially like if I run off the road pointing straight down the mountain, the only solution is backwards. If not that I had bought one, i would have run the channel underneath the vehicle because the skid plates make it all nice and flat and smooth and perfect for such a situation.

And is really the only way to use your winch to pull yourself backwards is by going under unless you set up one of these complicated, multi pulleys method.

Worse case, would need another small piece of channel somewhere on the front bumper if, I'm not sure yet, the cable hits the front of the vehicle or hood.

Well, that is a good idea, never thought having a winch on the back side. It makes sense, especially if your riding solo and get stuck. Being self sufficient is very necessary...post some pics of your set up when complete, I would like to see it.

 

[Plumber101010]

Will do. I'm almost finished with all the little extras and I will post pics when complete.

I look at winches just like I do light bars. Everyone has one on the front but I have two, front and back. Can't tell you how many times having a rear bar was as if not more important than the front one. Winch is the same to me. But if you don't have another one like I do, running the channel underneath is a perfect option and saves money and you only need one.

The only reason I was talking about putting the channel on the roof was to assist in picking up that stupid dump bed!!!

I am finishing up a new post now it's entitled "Dear Honda" LOL

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Have you seen any official Honda commercials that show the bed dumping with a load? Have they stated that it is a "power dump bed"? (I don't know personally as this isn't a feature that I am interested in)

If you have not, there is no implied warranty related to a dump bed. A "dump bed" just means what it says, that it will dump. Not that it will dump for you or assist you in any way. If you have seen something officially from Honda that would give a reasonable consumer the impression that the bed will dump a 1,000 lb load without any assistance or with limited assistance, then you might, and I mean might, have something to hang your hat on. However, as long as the bed will tilt enough that stuff will slide out, it can be called a dump bed and that is all that an implied warranty would cover.

Otherwise, Honda will just tell you that you didn't do your due diligence in purchasing your product since the Honda Pioneer 700 also has a similar designed bed.

You might have something if your dealer told you that it would dump for you and it doesn't. You may be able to talk them into installing one of those power dump bed additions for free or at least a discount.

 

[Plumber101010]

Well

Have you seen any official Honda commercials that show the bed dumping with a load? Have they stated that it is a "power dump bed"? (I don't know personally as this isn't a feature that I am interested in)

If you have not, there is no implied warranty related to a dump bed. A "dump bed" just means what it says, that it will dump. Not that it will dump for you or assist you in any way. If you have seen something officially from Honda that would give a reasonable consumer the impression that the bed will dump a 1,000 lb load without any assistance or with limited assistance, then you might, and I mean might, have something to hang your hat on. However, as long as the bed will tilt enough that stuff will slide out, it can be called a dump bed and that is all that an implied warranty would cover.

Otherwise, Honda will just tell you that you didn't do your due diligence in purchasing your product since the Honda Pioneer 700 also has a similar designed bed.

You might have something if your dealer told you that it would dump for you and it doesn't. You may be able to talk them into installing one of those power dump bed additions for free or at least a discount.

Well I totally disagree with that. For starters, the fact that it isn't a feature you're interested in, is a reason Honda SHOULDN'T fix it? I don't use the paddle shifting whatsoever, I only use automatic.

So it's ok if the paddle shifting is defective and doesn't work?

Honda has to make sure that everything on the vehicle works, whether or whether not it is a feature the purchaser is interested in.

So what about the features you are interested in? So if those didn't work and was defective you would feel different correct?

Second, really??? No offense, but what you just said sounded like something a corporations defense attorney would say in a courtroom.

Your HONOR. Yes, we showed windshield wipers in our TV commercial, but we never actually showed them working in the rain! Of course, when it is raining, the force of the raindrops on the windshield is enough to stop the wipers from actually functioning.

Well your HONOR, yes, you saw headlights on the front in all our advertisements, but Honda never actually shows them on and working, so we didn't imply anything. LOL

Sorry, I just so disagree with you. If Honda states it has a bed capacity of 1000 pounds and that it has a tilted bed, what you're actually saying is all they have to prove is that the bed tilts with absolutely no load in it whatsoever and they don't have to prove it tilts with a load??

Well I have to ask you, because it begs to question, exactly, precisely what good is a bed that tilts if it can't tilt with a load? What would be the benefit of such a beast? Why would any company design a bed to tilt with no weight in it? That would be absolutely misleading don't you think?

And if you took that concept that you're putting out there and applied it to absolutely any other feature on the Honda, I'm sure you would understand.

Example: We said that is has a fully auto transmission. And it does. But that's ONLY when the vehicle is completely empty and nobody is In it.

Under load or when carrying passengers or any kind of weight, it only works in manual...

 

[ghost]

On the other hand - just cause they say the seat in truck is adjustable and can handle a 400 pound person - that doesn't imply it is a power seat and will move on its own under full load by the press of a button. Some trucks don't have power seats.

I think the previous post was just trying to present the other perspective. It sounded like a lawyer - cause that's just the way it will go if Honda decides not to fulfill your expectations.

Don't get me wrong - I want a bed that dumps under load too.

 

[Plumber101010]

On the other hand - just cause they say the seat in truck is adjustable and can handle a 400 pound person - that doesn't imply it is a power seat and will move on its own under full load by the press of a button. Some trucks don't have power seats.

I think the previous post was just trying to present the other perspective. It sounded like a lawyer - cause that's just the way it will go if Honda decides not to fulfill your expectations.

Don't get me wrong - I want a bed that dumps under load too.

But in this case, we are talking the seat is not adjustable under any load! Only empty. If the Honda could dump 750 pounds I would be very happy. If it could dump 500 pounds I would be happy. The dump trailer basically wont dump with any load over 150-200 hundred pounds which should be equivalent to any person when over 50 pounds of the seat.

However, that was a great analogy

 

[fish]

The only advertisement I've seen with the dump in use did work, mind you he had a full load of saw dust, maybe 20 lbs. tops.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Well


Well I totally disagree with that. For starters, the fact that it isn't a feature you're interested in, is a reason Honda SHOULDN'T fix it? I don't use the paddle shifting whatsoever, I only use automatic.

So it's ok if the paddle shifting is defective and doesn't work?

Honda has to make sure that everything on the vehicle works, whether or whether not it is a feature the purchaser is interested in.

So what about the features you are interested in? So if those didn't work and was defective you would feel different correct?

Second, really??? No offense, but what you just said sounded like something a corporations defense attorney would say in a courtroom.

Your HONOR. Yes, we showed windshield wipers in our TV commercial, but we never actually showed them working in the rain! Of course, when it is raining, the force of the raindrops on the windshield is enough to stop the wipers from actually functioning.

Well your HONOR, yes, you saw headlights on the front in all our advertisements, but Honda never actually shows them on and working, so we didn't imply anything. LOL

Sorry, I just so disagree with you. If Honda states it has a bed capacity of 1000 pounds and that it has a tilted bed, what you're actually saying is all they have to prove if that that the bed tilts with absolutely no load in it whatsoever and they don't have to prove it tilts with a load??

Well I have to ask you, because it begs to question, exactly, precisely what good is a bed that tilts if it can't tilt with a load? What would be the benefit of such a beast? Why would any company design a bed to tilt with no weight in it? That would be absolutely misleading don't you think?

And if you took that concept that you're putting out there and applied it to absolutely any other feature on the Honda, I'm sure you would understand.

Example: We said that is has a fully auto transmission. And it does. But that's ONLY when the vehicle is completely empty and nobody is In it.

Under load or when carrying passengers or any kind of weight, it only works in manual...

I was only stating that I wasn't interested in it to preface the reason that I don't know if they have any videos or other official Honda adverts stating that the bed will dump. It isn't something that I personally have researched. But if it was, I would have researched it.

I intentionally sounded like a corporate defense atty because that is what they will tell you (and likely win). I have been involved in several "lemon law" cases in the automotive world, specifically NVH related. (Noise, Vibration and Harmonics, although there is debate about what the H really stands for ) There are some legitimate implied warranty claims on lemon law litigation, but having a feature that doesn't work the way a person expects it to, isn't normally applicable. If the bed will dump, it can be called a dump bed. I have a manual dump cart. It doesn't always dump. Often I have to lift up on the back of it to give it some "help". It is still a dump cart. I just isn't an automatic or powered dump cart. If the Honda were called a powered dump bed and it couldn't lift the specified load, then yes, it would be a good claim.

You are using a logical fallacy to make your argument what is called in logic circles as a "false equivalency". False equivalence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For example, a windshield wiper by definition and expectation should wipe a window, that is it. If it doesn't do that, it is defective and would be a warranty claim. If, however, it is not a powered wiper, it won't do it without manual input, claiming that it is defective, is not a supportable claim. (See what I did there?)

You tactic should be to show that Honda or your dealer gave you the false impression that the bed would dump without manual input. If you can find a video or communication that shows the bed dumping a significant load without any assistance, then I think you would have a case. Otherwise, I don't think you will get much traction.

 

[joeymt33]

Yeah, some people don't care much for the dump bed but I bought the vehicle for work and play. It's the perfect vehicle for me. But when I use the dump bed, I think how ridiculous it is that they "almost" got it right. It's like they ran 3/4 of the race but didn't finish. I mean, they build the dump bed, hinges, latches, etc but it's pretty pointless since it won't really help dump.

You could put a bigger or stronger strut that would help dump but then it would be hard to close.

There is a dealer in north GA that is selling a 12v power dump system that may be worth looking into.


Sent from my iPad 7G

 

[joeymt33]

I can also see how this sounds like whining but I get it. When it's 90° or higher in the south and you just worked up a good sweat to load up your "new work tool" just to find out you have to double work to unload it by hand or give yourself a hernia trying to lift the dump bed, it sucks.

I've got two utility dump carts. They are fairly cheap at $200 but they will dump super easy with over a thousand pounds in it.

And yes I have used it for years and experienced this more than a dozen times. Why couldn't Honda get it right if the guys who made these simple carts could get it right.

This is a light load


This is the smaller of my two dump trailer but still it's a heavy load.


When the loads get too big for the little trailers.....I use this dump trailer.


I flip it over with the tractor to make it a "dump trailer".




Sent from my iPad 7G

 

[Plumber101010]

I was only stating that I wasn't interested in it to preface the reason that I don't know if they have any videos or other official Honda adverts stating that the bed will dump. It isn't something that I personally have researched. But if it was, I would have researched it.

I intentionally sounded like a corporate defense atty because that is what they will tell you (and likely win). I have been involved in several "lemon law" cases in the automotive world, specifically NVH related. (Noise, Vibration and Harmonics, although there is debate about what the H really stands for ) There are some legitimate implied warranty claims on lemon law litigation, but having a feature that doesn't work the way a person expects it to, isn't normally applicable. If the bed will dump, it can be called a dump bed. I have a manual dump cart. It doesn't always dump. Often I have to lift up on the back of it to give it some "help". It is still a dump cart. I just isn't an automatic or powered dump cart. If the Honda were called a powered dump bed and it couldn't lift the specified load, then yes, it would be a good claim.

You are using a logical fallacy to make your argument what is called in logic circles as a "false equivalency". False equivalence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For example, a windshield wiper by definition and expectation should wipe a window, that is it. If it doesn't do that, it is defective and would be a warranty claim. If, however, it is not a powered wiper, it won't do it without manual input, claiming that it is defective, is not a supportable claim. (See what I did there?)

You tactic should be to show that Honda or your dealer gave you the false impression that the bed would dump without manual input. If you can find a video or communication that shows the bed dumping a significant load without any assistance, then I think you would have a case. Otherwise, I don't think you will get much traction.

I still have a tendency to disagree, by mere virtue of the fact that every single person that has tried to use it as a dump bed, has said they were unaware of the issue prior to actually using it. That says a lot for reasonable user expectations .

You also have to bring in the users reasonable expectations when every other single UTV's dump bed does in fact work as implied.

It wouldn't take but a video of a half-dozen other brands dumping the exact same load the Honda cannot dump to prove its point.

I think there is definitely an implied and above and beyond a reasonable expectation from the consumer that the dumb bed should be able to dump when "under load", as there would be absolutely NO reason to utilize a dump trailer unless it has a load.

Feature in and of itself without having a load is totally useless and worthless and therefore, the ONLY reason it could possibly be shown and advertised to tilt would be to falsely lead the consumer to an incorrect assumption that it tilts under load.

If this was new technology on the market for the very first time, MAYBE I would agree with you. Only from proving it in a court of law.

But it has been ingrained and etched in stone in peoples minds for many decades that a dump bed or dump trailer or anything that dumps.... Does so with a load, as the feature is useless and meaningless without the load that accompanies it.

The entire purpose of having a dump trailer, or a dump bed, is so it can "dump something".

Yes, there is an implied warranty that the intended purpose of a dump bed is to dump a load. How much load? Hondas stated load capacity of 1000 pds. ( but as I say, I'd settle for half that and be a happy man )

 

[Plumber101010]

I can also see how this sounds like whining but I get it. When it's 90° or higher in the south and you just worked up a good sweat to load up your "new work tool" just to find out you have to double work to unload it by hand or give yourself a hernia trying to lift the dump bed, it sucks.

I've got two utility dump carts. They are fairly cheap at $200 but they will dump super easy with over a thousand pounds in it.

And yes I have used it for years and experienced this more than a dozen times. Why couldn't Honda get it right if the guys who made these simple carts could get it right.

This is a light load
View attachment 16187

This is the smaller of my two dump trailer but still it's a heavy load.
View attachment 16188

When the loads get too big for the little trailers.....I use this dump trailer.
View attachment 16189

I flip it over with the tractor to make it a "dump trailer".




Sent from my iPad 7G

I want your mini excavator!!!! Please???

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I still have a tendency to disagree, by mere virtue of the fact that every single person that has tried to use it as a dump bed, has said they were unaware of the issue prior to actually using it. That says a lot for reasonable user expectations .

You also have to bring in the users reasonable expectations when every other single UTV's dump bed does in fact work as implied.

It wouldn't take but a video of a half-dozen other brands dumping the exact same load the Honda cannot dump to prove its point.

I think there is definitely an implied and above and beyond a reasonable expectation from the consumer that the dumb bed should be able to dump when "under load", as there would be absolutely NO reason to utilize a dump trailer unless it has a load.

Feature in and of itself without having a load is totally useless and worthless and therefore, the ONLY reason it could possibly be shown and advertised to tilt would be to falsely lead the consumer to an incorrect assumption that it tilts under load.

If this was new technology on the market for the very first time, MAYBE I would agree with you. Only from proving it in a court of law.

But it has been ingrained and etched in stone in peoples minds for many decades that a dump bed or dump trailer or anything that dumps.... Does so with a load, as the feature is useless and meaningless without the load that accompanies it.

The entire purpose of having a dump trailer, or a dump bed, is so it can "dump something".

Yes, there is an implied warranty that the intended purpose of a dump bed is to dump a load. How much load? Hondas stated load capacity of 1000 pds. ( but as I say, I'd settle for half that and be a happy man )

Good luck with that.

Try to find a pro-bono lawyer though. You don't want to get stuck with the court costs and lawyer fees for all of Honda's legal team.

Don't forget, the likely best outcome would be that Honda would pay to add a powered dump feature to your machine. I, for fiduciary reasons, would check to see what the 12V add on would cost versus paying for a lawyer.

 

[joeymt33]

I want your mini excavator!!!! Please???

Sold now, on had it around to help build. I have been considering getting an attachment for the 50 hp Kubota, but they're like $9K! Cheaper than a miniX for sure.


Sent from my iPad 7G

 

[MontanaBighorn]

I really don't see cause for a lawsuit over this. One of the compelling reasons that I bought my Pioneer was because it's a Honda which means that in and of itself, if the machine doesn't meet my expectations I can sell it for any reasonable market value rather quickly without losing my shirt over it. No machine will meet all expectations and some are simply better than others at different things. It didn't take me very long to realize that my RZR was total junk and once I realized that it would always be in the shop it took me months to sell it and I lost thousands when I finally did because the local market is so saturated with others doing the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. At least with the Honda I know that I can easily sell it with minimal loss should I decide that it's not for me.
Based on much of what you've said, it may be easier for you to sell. When you go to replace it, shop the Kawasaki line pretty closely. The new Mule Pro is an outstanding machine and the best Mule ever by far. The Teryx is another great choice for work and play. While I don't much care for the aesthetic value, I think my Teryx might be the most capable SxS ever built.

 

[Russel]

Good luck with that.

Try to find a pro-bono lawyer though. You don't want to get stuck with the court costs and lawyer fees for all of Honda's legal team.

Don't forget, the likely best outcome would be that Honda would pay to add a powered dump feature to your machine. I, for fiduciary reasons, would check to see what the 12V add on would cost versus paying for a lawyer.

Maybe just talk with Honda? Ask them if the dump bed is actually made to dump 1000lbs or if the 1000lbs is the limit for what the machine can hold safely. I know I had a 200-300 pounds or more of drift wood and it dumped just fine. I have the 700-4. I just thought it was a sweet idea to have this feature, which I didn't realize it had it till after I bought it. The dealer didn't tell me and when I picked it up, I asked him what this lever was when I was inspecting the vehicle. My boys like this is option the most and want to use it as a slide when I raise it and spray it out...Maybe just figure out how much weight the dump bed will actually dump and then discuss with Honda. They may say you are actually dumping more weight then is actually made for. If you can prove that it is 1000lbs of cargo and nothing happens then you might have a case.

 

[Russel]

I really don't see cause for a lawsuit over this. One of the compelling reasons that I bought my Pioneer was because it's a Honda which means that in and of itself, if the machine doesn't meet my expectations I can sell it for any reasonable market value rather quickly without losing my shirt over it. No machine will meet all expectations and some are simply better than others at different things. It didn't take me very long to realize that my RZR was total junk and once I realized that it would always be in the shop it took me months to sell it and I lost thousands when I finally did because the local market is so saturated with others doing the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. At least with the Honda I know that I can easily sell it with minimal loss should I decide that it's not for me.
Based on much of what you've said, it may be easier for you to sell. When you go to replace it, shop the Kawasaki line pretty closely. The new Mule Pro is an outstanding machine and the best Mule ever by far. The Teryx is another great choice for work and play. While I don't much care for the aesthetic value, I think my Teryx might be the most capable SxS ever built.

Very true! That is the main reason why we bought the Honda Pioneer. We talked with a Alaska four-wheeler guide here in Kodiak and he only has Honda's and said the same thing. They are the most liable, market value stays high, and you can sell them quick if you ever want to sell yours. Razers from what I heard do break down a lot, but they sure do look pretty. The 1000 razor is pretty fast though. My buddy has one and it does fly over the rough terrain, but I wonder for how long that will last.

 

[Plumber101010]

I really don't see cause for a lawsuit over this. One of the compelling reasons that I bought my Pioneer was because it's a Honda which means that in and of itself, if the machine doesn't meet my expectations I can sell it for any reasonable market value rather quickly without losing my shirt over it. No machine will meet all expectations and some are simply better than others at different things. It didn't take me very long to realize that my RZR was total junk and once I realized that it would always be in the shop it took me months to sell it and I lost thousands when I finally did because the local market is so saturated with others doing the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. At least with the Honda I know that I can easily sell it with minimal loss should I decide that it's not for me.
Based on much of what you've said, it may be easier for you to sell. When you go to replace it, shop the Kawasaki line pretty closely. The new Mule Pro is an outstanding machine and the best Mule ever by far. The Teryx is another great choice for work and play. While I don't much care for the aesthetic value, I think my Teryx might be the most capable SxS ever built.

I have NO intention of suing Honda. I couldn't afford such lavious expenditures!

This is just a general discussion as to whether they would be liable or not.

There are more than enough class action attorneys out there that will pick up and run with this issue at no cost to me if Honda refuses to address the issue. They live and breath for such things

I have also heard splendid things about the Kasasaki. But I have NO intention of selling. I will divise a work around and already have using my front winch to lift it up under load (see previous posts here)