Plumber101010
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Plumber101010
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
That's actually MORE disconcerting to me if they have jumped ship again.
It definitely used to be Conoco Phillips and before that, if I'm not mistaken, it was Exxon Mobil. I mean theres not that many companies that produce oil, Honda has run the whole gambit LOL.
Still to me, it's more disconcerting because now we have 3 different companies that Honda got / gets their oil from, all while maintaining the same, "Genuine Honda Oil" label?
Seems to me, there's nothing genuine about it..
This is not just Honda by the way, though everyone may think I'm only referring to Honda and jump into defense mode.
This was a Yamaha thread or a GM thread, it would be the exact same remarks, just a different company name filled in the blank.
Every single company does it, absolutely everybody.
Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Suzuki, Polaris, the list goes on and on. They ALL have their own, supposedly "Genuine Oil" brand.
I mean come on, no one's going to get me to believe that they all have their own, specially designed motor oils for all of their individual motors. The costs associated alone with designing a special motor oil for their special engine would be so exorbitant they would never do it.
It was that exact concept right there, that exact thought, that there's only so many companies producing oil, yet hundreds of companies claiming they have their own oil that led me to research this many years ago. As I too was like everyone else, I only bought certified GM oils for my fleet of plumbing trucks. Small fleet... Lol.
And I was a diehard like everyone else I'm trying to talk to now.
It was this research that proved, not speculated, proved, there was overlapping and duplication done here big time, hence the testing that showed Ford and Honda
(automobile line) oils as being indentical.
And all the while, the companies maintaining their own private "GENUINE OIL" label.
It's a hard habit to break, I know, and hard knowledge to swallow, and many diehards will just refuse to accept it and will go down fighting and to their deathbed, maintaining and swearing that they should only use that companies genuine oil, even though it's public knowledge there is nothing genuine about it.
It's one of those quirky things about people, that once they get something in their head, there's no changing it, regardless of the tons of available information showing these oils are not genuine and in fact, that one one companies genuine oil is a exact duplicate of this other companies genuine oil.
Why are Americans so quirky about it? As I said, the fear factor. Warranty purposes. Over and over and over again that's the top reason you will hear. Why risk it? Honda says this... Chevy says this... Yamaha says this...
Time and time again, all the companies will make hints about their own companies oil combined with warranty.
It works like a charm, hence all the diehards.
And in every forum for every company, you will find a thread like this, and they are all heated and they all lead to arguments.
I can post links from GM, Yamaha, blah blah, just doesn't matter, fill in the blank with your own company name. Exact same thing.
In addition to warranties, there's another reason this charade continues to happen. It removes the thought process.
The users don't have to wonder, don't have to worry, don't have to speculate. They can just go down and get that companies genuine oil and they know it's the right oil.
They just simply make it easier to just buy their own oil.
You need look no farther than this right here. If Synthetic isn't a superior oil and synthetic could hurt your wet clutch, then why on earth would Honda offer synthetic?
Here you have Honda as well as all the other companies, saying use this oil, it's genuine, it's best, and you SHOULD use it if you have a warranty issue and you want us to fix your engine.
OH, by the way, we also have this synthetic for sale over here...
Seeing as how I was a diehard too and refused to face all of the facts and proof as it slapped me in the face, I don't normally get upset when I hear others refusing to use it, I was the same way with ALL GM oils and fluids.
Getting me to start using synthetic was like pulling teeth. It truly is a hard habit to break.
But even now with all of the knowledge I have concerning this subject, I still agree with Joeymt33, when he says, if you maintain your vehicles, change the oil on a regular basis, keywords are "regular and frequent" you're still probably wind up with your truck with 250,000 miles on it
I don't know about the saving money part of it, but I agree with the rest of it.
But If you are someone that just can't keep up with it, don't change it on a regular basis, or like me, just too lazy to do it on a regular basis and like knowing I only have to do it once a year or 12,000 miles, synthetic is absolutely way to go
And please everyone, let's keep things civilized. Name-calling or negative remarks are simply not needed and best left behind in our highschool years.
Let's all act like grown adults and stop throwing rocks at others you disagree with!
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I'm not disagreeing but how can you compare oil that is used in the engine in your truck, to what is being used in a sxs where the engine and transmission oil is shared.
Let just not complicate things with big right ups. If what ever oil you want to use in your machine, for what ever reason meets the specs use the oil and move on.
Let just not complicate things with big right ups. If what ever oil you want to use in your machine, for what ever reason meets the specs use the oil and move on.
ohanacreek
My EcoBoost has I4WD
Moderator
Lifetime Member
That's actually MORE disconcerting to me if they have jumped ship again.
It definitely used to be Conoco Phillips and before that, if I'm not mistaken, it was Exxon Mobil. I mean theres not that many companies that produce oil, Honda has run the whole gambit LOL.
Still to me, it's more disconcerting because now we have 3 different companies that Honda got / gets their oil from, all while maintaining the same, "Genuine Honda Oil" label?
Seems to me, there's nothing genuine about it..
This is not just Honda by the way, though everyone may think I'm only referring to Honda and jump into defense mode.
This was a Yamaha thread or a GM thread, it would be the exact same remarks, just a different company name filled in the blank.
Every single company does it, absolutely everybody.
Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Suzuki, Polaris, the list goes on and on. They ALL have their own, supposedly "Genuine Oil" brand.
I mean come on, no one's going to get me to believe that they all have their own, specially designed motor oils for all of their individual motors. The costs associated alone with designing a special motor oil for their special engine would be so exorbitant they would never do it.
It was that exact concept right there, that exact thought, that there's only so many companies producing oil, yet hundreds of companies claiming they have their own oil that led me to research this many years ago. As I too was like everyone else, I only bought certified GM oils for my fleet of plumbing trucks. Small fleet... Lol.
And I was a diehard like everyone else I'm trying to talk to now.
It was this research that proved, not speculated, proved, there was overlapping and duplication done here big time, hence the testing that showed Ford and Honda
(automobile line) oils as being indentical.
And all the while, the companies maintaining their own private "GENUINE OIL" label.
It's a hard habit to break, I know, and hard knowledge to swallow, and many diehards will just refuse to accept it and will go down fighting and to their deathbed, maintaining and swearing that they should only use that companies genuine oil, even though it's public knowledge there is nothing genuine about it.
It's one of those quirky things about people, that once they get something in their head, there's no changing it, regardless of the tons of available information showing these oils are not genuine and in fact, that one one companies genuine oil is a exact duplicate of this other companies genuine oil.
Why are Americans so quirky about it? As I said, the fear factor. Warranty purposes. Over and over and over again that's the top reason you will hear. Why risk it? Honda says this... Chevy says this... Yamaha says this...
Time and time again, all the companies will make hints about their own companies oil combined with warranty.
It works like a charm, hence all the diehards.
And in every forum for every company, you will find a thread like this, and they are all heated and they all lead to arguments.
I can post links from GM, Yamaha, blah blah, just doesn't matter, fill in the blank with your own company name. Exact same thing.
In addition to warranties, there's another reason this charade continues to happen. It removes the thought process.
The users don't have to wonder, don't have to worry, don't have to speculate. They can just go down and get that companies genuine oil and they know it's the right oil.
They just simply make it easier to just buy their own oil.
You need look no farther than this right here. If Synthetic isn't a superior oil and synthetic could hurt your wet clutch, then why on earth would Honda offer synthetic?
Here you have Honda as well as all the other companies, saying use this oil, it's genuine, it's best, and you SHOULD use it if you have a warranty issue and you want us to fix your engine.
OH, by the way, we also have this synthetic for sale over here...
Seeing as how I was a diehard too and refused to face all of the facts and proof as it slapped me in the face, I don't normally get upset when I hear others refusing to use it, I was the same way with ALL GM oils and fluids.
Getting me to start using synthetic was like pulling teeth. It truly is a hard habit to break.
But even now with all of the knowledge I have concerning this subject, I still agree with Joeymt33, when he says, if you maintain your vehicles, change the oil on a regular basis, keywords are "regular and frequent" you're still probably wind up with your truck with 250,000 miles on it
I don't know about the saving money part of it, but I agree with the rest of it.
But If you are someone that just can't keep up with it, don't change it on a regular basis, or like me, just too lazy to do it on a regular basis and like knowing I only have to do it once a year or 12,000 miles, synthetic is absolutely way to go
And please everyone, let's keep things civilized. Name-calling or negative remarks are simply not needed and best left behind in our highschool years.
Let's all act like grown adults and stop throwing rocks at others you disagree with!
The last statistic I heard (may have changed recently) was 94% of all automotive batteries that are in use/for sale domestically are all made in the same plant by the same manufacturer.
They are made to a different specification for each name that goes on the outside. So even though they are made by the same manufacturer in the same few plants, they're all different specifications and incredibly different batteries.
I could be wrong but HONDA doesn't own a refinery, NAPA doesn't own a battery plant. Ford doesn't make their own seats, some are actually made by the same company as their batteries. Chevy doesn't make their wiring harnesses. Some competing Manufacturer's Ford/Chevy have cooperated to make transmissions. Google it.
Lots of things are farmed out because it wouldn't make business sense to build a battery plant just for Ford and you actually cant build anymore refineries in the US.
All these parts are made to the Manufacturer's specifications so whether they were made in their plant or not is not the point. As long as they are made to the manufacturers spec and is consistent. That is the point.
good statement ohana you would know a thing or two about the batteries and harnesses i do believe jci has the market for sure these days
Plumber101010
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
That's absolutely correct. Being a repair plumber, I can tell you there's only a few companies nationwide that manufacture water heaters but label them under a slew of brands, G.E., Sears, Ace Hardware, the works!
And they all say for example "Only use genuine GE parts" which is a complete and utter joke. Any thermostat and any element will work in any water heater made in the United States.
Everybody does it, for every different product, for every different part of the product. And they all state "OEM parts" or "don't use any other replacement parts except these".
And so I agree that though it doesn't necessarily mean or imply its the same, it also unfortunately, doesn't necessarily means it's not the same.
And a lot more complicated to find that information than it is calling a plumber and asking him about heaters.
For the average Joe Blow citizen there's absolutely no way of knowing. And that's why they have companies that test these oils to know for sure, so they can feel safe and secure in letting Joe Blow know, that these are alike oils.
I'm sure it's a very expensive procedure and done in a laboratory setting. And I can only imagine the variables involved, I am sure it's complicated.
Knowing they can only do that for only a few specific oils, for one reason or another, they chose Ford and Honda as one of them, and come to find out.. They were exactly the same. So at least in this case, though I highly suspect there's many more, it's been proven that Honda did it. Or Ford did it, depends which way look at it.
A great prime example is GM and their "blue" rear axle fluid. A great marketing ploy, a fantastic one, and overnight, people started questioning whether they could use regular synthetic as they always have, as they were being told that the "blue" stuff had special additives formulated for GM "seals" and it kept the seals lubricated.
At of course at a most ridiculous cost, an unbelievable exorbitant cost, for every day axle fluid. Overnight they probably generated millions of dollars in profit by turning the color blue!
Even myself, not knowing whether it was true or not, started buying the blue stuff and paying out the butt. And to this day, I'm not sure that anyone has ever done any scientific testing to prove otherwise.
The entire problem with that, is all a company has to do is change one little thing, one little molecule, put in 1,000,000% more of this, and can now use the term "specially formulated".
Or if they're real lazy, just dye it blue
And they all say for example "Only use genuine GE parts" which is a complete and utter joke. Any thermostat and any element will work in any water heater made in the United States.
Everybody does it, for every different product, for every different part of the product. And they all state "OEM parts" or "don't use any other replacement parts except these".
And so I agree that though it doesn't necessarily mean or imply its the same, it also unfortunately, doesn't necessarily means it's not the same.
And a lot more complicated to find that information than it is calling a plumber and asking him about heaters.
For the average Joe Blow citizen there's absolutely no way of knowing. And that's why they have companies that test these oils to know for sure, so they can feel safe and secure in letting Joe Blow know, that these are alike oils.
I'm sure it's a very expensive procedure and done in a laboratory setting. And I can only imagine the variables involved, I am sure it's complicated.
Knowing they can only do that for only a few specific oils, for one reason or another, they chose Ford and Honda as one of them, and come to find out.. They were exactly the same. So at least in this case, though I highly suspect there's many more, it's been proven that Honda did it. Or Ford did it, depends which way look at it.
A great prime example is GM and their "blue" rear axle fluid. A great marketing ploy, a fantastic one, and overnight, people started questioning whether they could use regular synthetic as they always have, as they were being told that the "blue" stuff had special additives formulated for GM "seals" and it kept the seals lubricated.
At of course at a most ridiculous cost, an unbelievable exorbitant cost, for every day axle fluid. Overnight they probably generated millions of dollars in profit by turning the color blue!
Even myself, not knowing whether it was true or not, started buying the blue stuff and paying out the butt. And to this day, I'm not sure that anyone has ever done any scientific testing to prove otherwise.
The entire problem with that, is all a company has to do is change one little thing, one little molecule, put in 1,000,000% more of this, and can now use the term "specially formulated".
Or if they're real lazy, just dye it blue
Plumber101010
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Side note. But since it's my thread I get to do that
Let me say this, as we all got off to a bad start.
I am a bit of a consumer advocate. I have spent a lot of time researching the way that companies take advantage of the average American citizen.
I'm a member of dozens and dozens of forums, from Guns and survival, to batteries and flashlights, to anything you can think of. Survival and prepping and guns are my favorite topics. I've been prepping long before they used the term prepping and called us a survivalist!
I am generally considered a well respected, long-standing member that others know they can come to with a question and get a straight answer from.
It's not the same everywhere, and I have been in quite a few debates. I just research things and take it to much deeper levels than most people have the time to do.
I never realized how brand specific Honda was, and a lot of people took exception with my negativity, versus embracing it as they have in other forums.
I was here to learn, as well as help and enlighten. And I don't candy coat things just to make people smile.
I had researched the 1000 enough to know, there are tons of questions, complaints, and issues out there and they're being done on an individual level and as such there was no one large gathering of this information.
That was the purpose of the Dear Honda thread, to bring and create a gathering point.
When it comes to the pros, there is nothing but such sites touting the machine, listing it's pro's, review after review, all the pluses and all the highlights.
This is a rare circumstance because it's a first year production vehicle. Normally they have been out for many years and all these individual complaints are already gathered cause of the exposure.
What I've learned is that Honda people are very loyal. Very very loyal
And some, though by far not all, took exception with my constant negativity. Even though I stated very clearly at the start of the thread, that overall I was very satisfied with the machine and to NOT misconstrue my negative remarks as meaning I wasn't satisfied, and this was just a place for others to get together at a central location, some members went ahead anyway, and attacked!
If you make a statement that says, I'm very satisfied with my purchase, why on earth would people make remarks like, if you don't like it than sell it?
In either case, I've been around long enough to know, that first impressions are lasting. There are those that don't like me and will probably continue to do so!
So I wave the white flag to everyone here and now.
Let's all start again and understand that I am a bit passionate about protecting others, a bit of a consumer advocate and that my sole purpose was looking to protect and HELP others with the information I have gained over the years.
I am not here to bring aggravation or frustration to others. In this case, that's exactly what I did, so I apologize to the forum and say, let's start again
Let me say this, as we all got off to a bad start.
I am a bit of a consumer advocate. I have spent a lot of time researching the way that companies take advantage of the average American citizen.
I'm a member of dozens and dozens of forums, from Guns and survival, to batteries and flashlights, to anything you can think of. Survival and prepping and guns are my favorite topics. I've been prepping long before they used the term prepping and called us a survivalist!
I am generally considered a well respected, long-standing member that others know they can come to with a question and get a straight answer from.
It's not the same everywhere, and I have been in quite a few debates. I just research things and take it to much deeper levels than most people have the time to do.
I never realized how brand specific Honda was, and a lot of people took exception with my negativity, versus embracing it as they have in other forums.
I was here to learn, as well as help and enlighten. And I don't candy coat things just to make people smile.
I had researched the 1000 enough to know, there are tons of questions, complaints, and issues out there and they're being done on an individual level and as such there was no one large gathering of this information.
That was the purpose of the Dear Honda thread, to bring and create a gathering point.
When it comes to the pros, there is nothing but such sites touting the machine, listing it's pro's, review after review, all the pluses and all the highlights.
This is a rare circumstance because it's a first year production vehicle. Normally they have been out for many years and all these individual complaints are already gathered cause of the exposure.
What I've learned is that Honda people are very loyal. Very very loyal
And some, though by far not all, took exception with my constant negativity. Even though I stated very clearly at the start of the thread, that overall I was very satisfied with the machine and to NOT misconstrue my negative remarks as meaning I wasn't satisfied, and this was just a place for others to get together at a central location, some members went ahead anyway, and attacked!
If you make a statement that says, I'm very satisfied with my purchase, why on earth would people make remarks like, if you don't like it than sell it?
In either case, I've been around long enough to know, that first impressions are lasting. There are those that don't like me and will probably continue to do so!
So I wave the white flag to everyone here and now.
Let's all start again and understand that I am a bit passionate about protecting others, a bit of a consumer advocate and that my sole purpose was looking to protect and HELP others with the information I have gained over the years.
I am not here to bring aggravation or frustration to others. In this case, that's exactly what I did, so I apologize to the forum and say, let's start again
Dino oil needs additives to bring viscosity below 20W that wear out rather rapidly over time, meaning 10W-40 turns into 20W-40-synthetics maintain their viscosity tons better. Old farts like me know that oil has come a long way in the past 50 years and with normal use and maintenance engines generally outlast the other worn out components that put a vehicle in the scrapyard. Metal is porous and oil soaks into it. Detergents in oil wear out before the oil does and I've heard changing oil too frequently prevents oil from soaking into the metal and increases friction. Viscosity range is the oil's ability to maintain the same thickness over a certain temperature range so theoretically 0W-60 would be a great oil as it would be thin enough for cold weather and thick enough for extreme temp.s, so I wouldn't get hung up on different tech.s at Amsoil recommending different weights of their UTV oil-it varies with the temperature the UTV is used in. I use Amsoil because I've read their comparative analysis to other top oils and I'm sold. I'm spending the extra money on oil to maximize my Pioneer's ability to cope with extreme conditions, even though those conditions will probably never happen. Hopefully, my rigs runs a little better and lasts a little longer in the process.
The reason Honda and other manufacturers use Dino oil is cost. A guy might think twice about buying a UTV that requires a $100. oil change (synthetic) vs a $40. oil change (Dino oil). Either oil, changed frequently enough, will generally be sufficient for the vehicle's lifetime-I just wanted to switch "generally sufficient" to "the best" for my own obsessive peace of mind.
The reason Honda and other manufacturers use Dino oil is cost. A guy might think twice about buying a UTV that requires a $100. oil change (synthetic) vs a $40. oil change (Dino oil). Either oil, changed frequently enough, will generally be sufficient for the vehicle's lifetime-I just wanted to switch "generally sufficient" to "the best" for my own obsessive peace of mind.
Smitty335
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Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
I think I'm going synthetic in the sub transmission and diffs for sure. I have a 1951 Ford 8N that I mow with every week, that I put some off brand synthetic oil in last oil change, blow by reduced significantly and oil leak around the governor reduced ??????????????
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I have an '86 Simplicity 14hp tractor for mow and snow blowing. Now for snow only. Start it up first time in the winter and it drips oil for about 5 minutes, until that old cork in the gaskets sucks up oil and expands. Then the leak stops. Fed it synthetic since '93.
Mopower58
Unburdened by what has been!
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Honda GN-4 10w-40 here. I was a mechanic for 38 years, used Dino oil in all kinds of equipment and never,ever had an oil related problem.
Smitty335
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
I really took you as a polyester type of guy! I was reading some old posts and came across this, just couldn't resist, HA!Well you two guys are absolutely confusing the heck out of me then. Because I have read more articles that I can count that absolutely promote synthetic oil,
most Amsoil, in the 1000?
I'm just going to write this off to everybody has their own preference. Me? I am a synthetic man
I
And amszoil is good oil but its overpriced and thats how they got to where there at.
Smitty335
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
O
I agree I tried Amsoil and changed it out after 200 miles, too much engine chatter. Went with Mobil 4t motorcycle. Quieted everything down and in my opinion shifts better
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