P1000 Warn Winch drained battery or did the True UTV-SBI-18 not keep the 2nd battery charged?

[Jensenj71]

I suspect the AH capacity of the 2nd battery is limiting the duration of a heavy pull and extending the time needed to recover because it can only charge at 5A.

The charging capacity of the stator is unlikely to be the bottleneck because the battery is unable to absorb more than 5A. The output of the stator can only help feed the winch until the isolator opens.

The True website indicates there is a 10 second delay when connecting or disconnecting. When you winch you may draw from both batteries for 10 secs before the isolator opens. This could draw down the primay system voltage for 10 secs and impact the power steering. The isolator will not close back in until the primary system voltage reaches 13.4volts for 10secs. The primary system voltage should reach 13.4volts for 10secs with the engine running and close back in for 10secs. The winch might be able to overload the isolator during the 10secs if it pulls too many amps from the primary battery through the isolator. I am not sure if the isolator works as expected with the engine running and a heavy load on the 2nd battery. Did the winch change speed every 10secs when the engine was running?

If you want to pull multiple buddies out of deep mud I think you will need a larger 2nd battery and you will still need to watch overheating the winch motor. I suspect winches are like welders where you have to pay more to get a higher duty cycle.

 

[Admin]

 

[Jensenj71]

Correction:

According to the Odyssey technical guide the Odyssey AGM is capable of a much higher charge rate than flooded lead acid. It looks like the PC925 can absorb all 30A of the stator up to 80%. Still a 1min pull at 200A will take 7mins to recover.

I can definitely see a potential issue with isolater closing in and the Odessy sucking up all of the current and pulling down the system voltage and possibly causing the isolater to reopen. The isolator on my old motorhome did this when a charger was placed on the engine battery.

The technical guide does confirm that the PC925 can only sustain 225A for 2mins which is an apparent capacity of only 7.5AH. The PC925 is rated at 28AH on a 2.8A load for 10hrs. A heavy winch load dramatically reduces the apparent capacity.

Sorry for the confusion, most of my batteries are flooded lead acid.

 

[Cuoutdoors]

Thanks you for that explanation....I wish I understood it all! I'm a plumbing contractor and it was over my head!

I will say, reflecting back; I winched for about 45 seconds on the first winch; then, pulled him out with the Honda, I then recovered the full line (about 35') within about 2 minutes later. 20 minutes later I had to pull again (same machine, different driver) and pulled out into about 40' of range. This time, the machine was really stuck, I pulled for about 10 seconds and the winch stopped. For the record, I was off before I started up again, not idling, for the second recovery. I pressed on and the winch was dead with my Honda running at about 2,000 RPM. That's when I noticed the steering working real hard and not turning, I also noticed an electronic smoke smell.. At that point I gave up on the winch and just pulled the guy with my Honda. When in, I had another machine put a jumper cable on my second battery for about 5 minutes, my winch came back to life and was able to pull in the cable under no load, about 35' of rope. Then, my Wet Sounds 6 and Wet Sounds subwoofer shut off, they are hooked up to the AGM second battery, as well as the Warn 4,000 winch. I shut off my machine and it started back up like a champ, the isolator worked! Now, it's (True UTV-SBI-18) blue light is not on and after charging at home, it's blue light turned on for a few minutes and was sizzling, whistling and popping.

So, I guess my 2nd AGM battery can only handle about 30 seconds of hard pull and then wait an hour under high RPM's to do so again?

On my first machine I had the exact same Odyssey battery as you do and I had a warn 4k winch. I did not run an isolator. I feel like that gives me a bigger power bank to work from and I just keep an eye on the volt meter.

A few things that I do that make a big difference:

1. After advice from @ohanacreek I installed a 300amp breaker. Its amazing how many amps you'll pull between winching and all accessories. This offers some protection.

ZOOKOTO 300Amp Circuit Breaker,... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0786HM662?tag=sxsweb24-20

2. When winching a real heavy load turn off all accessories that aren't mission critical.

3. After significant winching I dont shut the machine off for about 20 minutes to let it recharge.

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[SuperDutyJohn]

On my first machine I had the exact same Odyssey battery as you do and I had a warn 4k winch. I did not run an isolator. I feel like that gives me a bigger power bank to work from and I just keep an eye on the volt meter.

A few things that I do that make a big difference:

1. After advice from @ohanacreek I installed a 300amp breaker. Its amazing how many amps you'll pull between winching and all accessories. This offers some protection.

ZOOKOTO 300Amp Circuit Breaker,... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0786HM662?tag=sxsweb24-20

2. When winching a real heavy load turn off all accessories that aren't mission critical.

3. After significant winching I dont shut the machine off for about 20 minutes to let it recharge.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Sage advice!

 

[lee]

Just a curiosity question, dose some one make a battery state of charge meter that could be applied in this situation?
I know the li-ion used in hybrid cars are notorious for not giving clues like a voltage drop untill it falls off a cliff.
So for those they keep track of the charge / discharge to feed the hybrid motor logic.

Somthing like this could understand you have drained 50% of the accessory battery or you have recharged it to 80%.
It would be easyer to know when to switch out with another vehicle in the group when doing a big pull of when you where recovered sufficiently to switch off (and be ready to go again if needed).
But, figuring this type of stuff out is totaly out of my field- I wouldn't know what or where to start looking.

Just a random thought for the day.

 

[Wendell_Jimbob]

I jumped from the buss bar I installed for the auxiliary battery after the True UTV-SBI-18 isolator, the other side of the isolator and the main Honda battery worked fine. I did though however, have a slight problem with steering while attempting the pull with the winch, the steering went hard a couple of times, making me think the OEM battery was low.

New update: I charged the Odyssey battery for about 5 hours today and ran the machine for about two hours very slow riding around my place this afternoon. After shutting down the machine I heard a buzzing sound under the hood and the blue light was back on for the True isolator, it stopped and stayed on. I then shut the machine down and the battery isolator light was off again. The whole time I had the machine on this afternoon for about 2 hours, I had the Wet Sounds system on, sound bar and sub woofer.

I did a quick voltage check and had 12.5 on the Odyssey 2nd battery and the main battery was at 12.6 volts.

 

[Wendell_Jimbob]

If you spooled in the entire winch under load, you simply drained the secondary battery.
Are you the type to freespool out? Or winch the line out under power?
To save voltage, try freespooling the line next time. It may save the second battery enough to use a 2nd time in 15 minutes. The capacity of your stator will not recharge your 2nd battery in 15 minutes. I would bet it would take 45 mins or more to top it off. It is just a limitation of the size of powersport batteries.

If heavy winch usage is common in your riding. I would suggest installing a large RV/Marine deep cycle battery under your seat for the 2nd battery.

 

[SuperDutyJohn]

If you spooled in the entire winch under load, you simply drained the secondary battery.
Are you the type to freespool out? Or winch the line out under power?
To save voltage, try freespooling the line next time. It may save the second battery enough to use a 2nd time in 15 minutes. The capacity of your stator will not recharge your 2nd battery in 15 minutes. I would bet it would take 45 mins or more to top it off. It is just a limitation of the size of powersport batteries.

If heavy winch usage is common in your riding. I would suggest installing a large RV/Marine deep cycle battery under your seat for the 2nd battery.

I'm the type that would use the winch the way they are designed, turn the knob and freespool out by hand and then winch for 20-60 seconds to free the vehicle, and then pull it with the machine. What type are you? I already explained that I've never winched (I don't put myself in that position and the winch is there if I f*** up) with this winch in the 5 months I've owned it and, I ride every weekend in the same place, so, heavy winching is not my normal riding.

 

[SuperDutyJohn]

Thanks Wendell_Jimbob, I wasn't going to respond to that but after your bringing it up, I thought I should.

 

[Cuoutdoors]

Sage advice!

May not be anything you didn't already know but it might help someone else out.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Smitty335]

Thanks you for that explanation....I wish I understood it all! I'm a plumbing contractor and it was over my head!

I will say, reflecting back; I winched for about 45 seconds on the first winch; then, pulled him out with the Honda, I then recovered the full line (about 35') within about 2 minutes later. 20 minutes later I had to pull again (same machine, different driver) and pulled out into about 40' of range. This time, the machine was really stuck, I pulled for about 10 seconds and the winch stopped. For the record, I was off before I started up again, not idling, for the second recovery. I pressed on and the winch was dead with my Honda running at about 2,000 RPM. That's when I noticed the steering working real hard and not turning, I also noticed an electronic smoke smell.. At that point I gave up on the winch and just pulled the guy with my Honda. When in, I had another machine put a jumper cable on my second battery for about 5 minutes, my winch came back to life and was able to pull in the cable under no load, about 35' of rope. Then, my Wet Sounds 6 and Wet Sounds subwoofer shut off, they are hooked up to the AGM second battery, as well as the Warn 4,000 winch. I shut off my machine and it started back up like a champ, the isolator worked! Now, it's (True UTV-SBI-18) blue light is not on and after charging at home, it's blue light turned on for a few minutes and was sizzling, whistling and popping.

So, I guess my 2nd AGM battery can only handle about 30 seconds of hard pull and then wait an hour under high RPM's to do so again?

Another dang plumber in the group! Think most plumbers ride HONDAS!

 

[Hondasxs]

Another dang plumber in the group! Think most plumbers ride HONDAS!

Cause you need a honda to pull all the s*** out of the woods.

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[Smitty335]

Cause you need a honda to pull all the s*** out of the woods.

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AND?

 

[Caper]

I have a Warn 4000S that I bought back in August and used it once, yesterday and it pulled one vehicle (T-Rex) out and wound it back up, the whole spool, he was out there! Then, I was going to pull another T-Rex stuck in the mud and it pulled slower and slower till it finally stopped after about 10' of pull. I smelled an electronic smell smoke and just stopped. Ended up just using the Honda Pioneer to pull out a Kawasaki T-Rex that was sitting on 4" Portals and 33" tires in 2' of mud. Yes, I have video of it all.

Opened up the hood and I noticed my True UTV-SBI-18 light was out and my power steering was weak. Also my Wet Sounds sub woofer blue light turned red and it went off. I put a jumper cable on and was able to retract the winch synthetic wire back in.

Did the Warn pull too much Amperage/voltage too quickly, or did my Battery Isolator go and I didn't notice it wasn't working? This was in the span of about 15 minutes.

I recently had a lot of steam under the hood when my radiator gulped air and overflowed, could that have killed the battery isolator?

I have the winch 2nd battery (Odyssey PC925) on the charger today to see if the isolator light turns back on when I charge that battery back up. Another note: I never had a problem starting it or the radiator fan turning on and off while riding back in.

I have a warn 4000 on my Pioneer 500. I haven’t used it yet to get my bike out, Blackwaters work good, haha, but I have used it for a couple stump roots in the trail. When I put it on the bike I tried pulling the bike up hill for about half the cable. No problems. When I was looking at winches the draw for a 4000 was less than the 2500. My brother is a mechanic who specializes in wiring. His RZR, yeah I know. Haha, is full of electronic’s with two batteries, more switches than room. Haha. Next time I talk to him I’ll ask him what he thinks.
Caper

 

[ohanacreek]

You start with a 25AH battery rated at maybe a 20A load with less capacity at higher loads .... might only have 10AH of capacity at high load because the internal battery resistance becomes a significant additional load at high discharge rates.

200A load x 1 min = 3.3AH used

30A charge from stator x 1 min = 0.5AH

This seems pretty good, however lead acid batteries are charge limited and bulk charge is about 20% of AH rating or maybe 5A for 25AH battery. The 30A of the stator certainly can't be absorbed by a 25AH battery.

5A charge accepted x 1 min = 0.08AH per min or 5AH per hour, so recovering 3.3AH from 1min of winching could easily take an hour.

Finally, a lead acid battery can't sustain a 20% of rated AH charge to 100% charge and the charge accepted will decrease from 5A at 70% to nothing at 100%. A full recovery to 100% after 1min of winching would easily be more like 2hrs.

Significant winching would seem to require a larger 2nd battery and the stator charging capacity could still become the limiting factor. A full size Group 27 with 100AH capacity might winch for 20min. Additionally, the Group 27 could absorb 20A in bulk charge which would dramatically shorten recovery via 30A stator, however recovery of 60AH of capacity would take more than 4hrs.

Many of these limitations go away with a LiFePO4 battery, however the current draw of the winch would likely take a high current Group 27 100AH lithium battery. The battery wouldn't necessarily be heavier than 25AH AGM battery, however it would be 5X the cost. You could winch for 30mins and charge at full stator output of 30A back to 100%. Assuming the lithium battery can handle the current of the winch and your pocket can handle the $900 cost, you could winch about 10mins of every hour with a 30A stator.

These may not be exact numbers for some AGM batteries, however high performance AGM batteries are only marginally better.

One thing to note the AHr rating is at 1amp draw, as you increase the draw the AHr rating will drop. I have a 48ahr Optima YellowTop. I am about to upgrade to a 75AHr H6 YellowTop which is only slightly larger in size.

For example I had to winch up a 40degree hill yesterday. My winch tripped my breaker once so it was drawing over 300amps(through a 2ga cable) it was below 10v in under a min and had pretty much stopped moving, but I got past the ledges that had my tires slinging and me going nowhere. Once at the top it had to sit for a while, while waiting on the next rig, for the voltage to be high enough for the Wetsounds bar to turn back on.

 

[Stew]

I did a quick voltage check and had 12.5 on the Odyssey 2nd battery and the main battery was at 12.6 volts.

Based on your information it wasn't the isolator, it was your primary battery. If your primary battery can't get above 12.6 volts, the isolator will never kick in and start charging your secondary battery from the alternator. This is the information from the TRUE website.

1. When the engine is running and the charging source raises the voltage of the start battery to 13.4 volts* (cut in threshold), the True Smart Battery Isolator (SBI) engages and connects the two batteries to charge simultaneously. The SBI’s internal LED will glow blue.

2. When all voltage sources drops below 12.9 volts* (cut out threshold) the SBI will disengage and the blue LED will go out.

3. When the SBI LED is out the batteries are separated thus preventing the power of your start battery from being drained by use of the accessories powered from the second battery.

4. When the vehicle is restarted and the start battery has recharged to 13.4 volts* the SBI engages, the LED will illuminate and the second battery is connected to receive charging.

*The True SBI is programmed with a 10 second delay before engaging or disengaging.

 

[mercert1]

i had the light staying on issue on my isolator so i put in a toggle switch on the ground wire for the isolator and turn it on when i ride and off when i am not riding and problem solved! that little blue LED light left on for days will drain the batteries down!

 

[Landman]

i had the light staying on issue on my isolator so i put in a toggle switch on the ground wire for the isolator and turn it on when i ride and off when i am not riding and problem solved! that little blue LED light left on for days will drain the batteries down!

Please see #2 on the post above yours... the LED turns itself off and it can't run your batteries down, unless the SBI is bad or there's a wiring issue maybe.