Talon R suspension comparison project

[Boundertom]

An opportunity recently presented itself, and I could not refuse it. A member here, whom I have never met, has offered to loan me his Shock Therapy modified shocks and springs for a trial. I shall leave this person anonymous, unless he chooses to 'fess up to his part in this. My suspension is stock. I recently adjusted the preload, trying to get back some lost ride height, after adding nearly 200 pounds to the rear end. I ended up at 12.5" ride height on 30" (29.5" actual) tires. The only other significant change I have made, suspension wise, is to remove the sway bar. That helped the ride a lot. The ST stuff is set up for a machine equipped about like mine is (see sig). Additionally, I am "probably" going to have my stock suspension modified at Weller Racing in the near future. So, the idea here is compare stock, Shock Therapy, and Weller Racing suspensions on the same machine.

I will be picking up the ST stuff on Tuesday. We are getting a little break in our AZ heat wave on Wednesday. And fortunately, the AZ public lands were re-opened last week. I can ride directly from my community onto BLM land. I plan to take my stock machine out for a run first. Then install the ST stuff and repeat the run. I would like to do these as "back to back" as I can, and over the same terrain. After the first run with the ST stuff, I will probably re-install the sway bar to see what that does.

I think I can give decent subjective reports on ride quality, but I am no suspension engineer. I am open to any tips on how to test, and/or what to look for. I will report back here on my impressions. Of course, if I really like the (free 😃) ST stuff, I may just ride off into the sunset, never to be heard from again!

 

[Admin]

 

[WagginTail]

Looking forward to hearing the results

 

[Killer223]

The Facebook group I named and founded Honda Talon Adventures, Heath and Fred did the same thing. both cars were same R and Heath had ST and Fred had Weller. Fred did a very through write up on the results.
Slow speed averaging under 35 mph the Weller is a bit smoother or compliant over the smaller rocks and dips. When the speeds pick up and or the G-outs come along the ST shines like no other. i think over all the weller on 2 was almost like the ST on 1, but the springs and the prelaod and crossover rings adjustment was significantly better with the ST setup. for highspeed runs like congrerss to alamo lake the ST on 2 was a beautiful thing and the well bottomed several times.
I'd be willing to do this same swap, I have ST ride improvement system. i'm in Flag.
For the speeds I drive the ST is hands down the better option. the weller just didn't have the control i needed. the Stock setup was horrendous.

I eagerly await your review.

 

[Boundertom]

The Facebook group I named and founded Honda Talon Adventures, Heath and Fred did the same thing. both cars were same R and Heath had ST and Fred had Weller. Fred did a very through write up on the results.
Slow speed averaging under 35 mph the Weller is a bit smoother or compliant over the smaller rocks and dips. When the speeds pick up and or the G-outs come along the ST shines like no other. i think over all the weller on 2 was almost like the ST on 1, but the springs and the prelaod and crossover rings adjustment was significantly better with the ST setup. for highspeed runs like congrerss to alamo lake the ST on 2 was a beautiful thing and the well bottomed several times.
I'd be willing to do this same swap, I have ST ride improvement system. i'm in Flag.
For the speeds I drive the ST is hands down the better option. the weller just didn't have the control i needed. the Stock setup was horrendous.

I eagerly await your review.

@Killer223,

Those results seem to be what others have experienced. The ST is better for higher speeds. I am a slower type of rider, so that is why I am leaning toward the Weller setup. A comfortable ride is the main priority, along with handling the added weight. FWIW, I just added up all of my accessories and got a total of 330 pounds!

I just joined the Talon Adventures group. How might I find the suspension comparison that you refer to?

 

[McCarthy]

I want to read the comparison as well

 

[sspeederr]

Has anyone did anything with a live valve and same comparison against ST and Weller most all of the articles that I have found are all manual body shocks really interested in some information on a live valve, not trying to take away from your article just poking for information thanks

 

[Killer223]

@Killer223,

Those results seem to be what others have experienced. The ST is better for higher speeds. I am a slower type of rider, so that is why I am leaning toward the Weller setup. A comfortable ride is the main priority, along with handling the added weight. FWIW, I just added up all of my accessories and got a total of 330 pounds!

I just joined the Talon Adventures group. How might I find the suspension comparison that you refer to?

on the facebook group page there is a topics tab, look through that for suspension. or maybe make a post asking talon fred for a link to it.

 

[Killer223]

Has anyone did anything with a live valve and same comparison against ST and Weller most all of the articles that I have found are all manual body shocks really interested in some information on a live valve, not trying to take away from your article just poking for information thanks

live valve is awesome, but can still be harsh. it to needs proper springs and valving for the loaded riding style and weight. The only place i know that has a setup for the live valve is ST.

 

[CID]

Weller has two options 10-30 mph riding and 20-40 riding (or something similar). I placed my order (10-30) but left Arizona before the heavier springs arrived (2 spares, a Dirt Road Fab bed extender with 3 gallon RotoPax and full TSC box).

I had intended to have Weller do everything at one stop when I return in the fall but riding with some lunatic friends has left me with a sacked out rear suspension (about 11-1/2” ground clearance that should be 14” and the preloads are squished down nearly tight on the cross over rings that are bottomed on the shock threads - I’m outta adjustment).

So my new plan is to have Weller send the springs now, I’ll install and they can do the shock valving in Oct/Nov. I hope the stock valving can deal with the much(?) stouter spring rate until then.

So I’m looking forward to your impressions, Mr. Tom. 👍

 

[Killer223]

Weller has two options 10-30 mph riding and 20-40 riding (or something similar). I placed my order (10-30) but left Arizona before the heavier springs arrived (2 spares, a Dirt Road Fab bed extender with 3 gallon RotoPax and full TSC box).

I had intended to have Weller do everything at one stop when I return in the fall but riding with some lunatic friends has left me with a sacked out rear suspension (about 11-1/2” ground clearance that should be 14” and the preloads are squished down nearly tight on the cross over rings that are bottomed on the shock threads - I’m outta adjustment).

So my new plan is to have Weller send the springs now, I’ll install and they can do the shock valving in Oct/Nov. I hope the stock valving can deal with the much(?) stouter spring rate until then.

So I’m looking forward to your impressions, Mr. Tom. 👍

That has been a common complaint, even the heavier tender springs are still to short.

 

[Lil_Steve]

An opportunity recently presented itself, and I could not refuse it. A member here, whom I have never met, has offered to loan me his Shock Therapy modified shocks and springs for a trial. I shall leave this person anonymous, unless he chooses to 'fess up to his part in this.

Of course, if I really like the (free 😃) ST stuff, I may just ride off into the sunset, never to be heard from again!

Looking forward to your impressions.

 

[Boundertom]

View attachment 283347





View attachment 283348



Looking forward to your impressions.

Lucky for you that you know someone who knows where I live! 🙂 Not so good for me. 🤔

 

[CID]

And Anonymous taught me how to send a ‘pin’ with Google Maps.

Last nite’s campsite.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Lil_Steve]

And Anonymous taught me how to send a ‘pin’ with Google Maps.

Last nite’s campsite.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Looks like a lot of peaks to explore. 👍

 

[CID]

It’s Nirvana here I tell ya. 😍 I’ll be between Leadville and Alma today, if it quits raining. I have everything I need but rain pants and the Talon dumps roof water on my left knee.

 

[Boundertom]

It’s Nirvana here I tell ya. 😍 I’ll be between Leadville and Alma today, if it quits raining. I have everything I need but rain pants and the Talon dumps roof water on my left knee.

I need to do something about that rainwater problem. In case I ever see rain again. I heard somewhere about blocking off the end of the "gutter" then drilling some holes in the middle of the gutter so the water runs down on the windshield. Seems like a reasonable plan......

 

[CID]

That might work, now that we have windshields. I’m considering rain pants since I’ll see more rain that you two, they can be had for just a few bucks. RV’s have little gutter extensions so runoff doesn’t run down the sides of the RV leaving black stains. One guy here drew up and 3D printed them for his SxS (don’t remember if it was a Talon or not). They went where you’re thinking of blocking off. He may have routed the water to run down the A pillar?

 

[Boundertom]

I picked up the Shock Therapy modified shocks and springs from Mr Anonymous yesterday. We also enjoyed some fine dining in Scottsdale! He had the shocks all cleaned up, so they looked like new!

First thing this morning I took the Talon out for a run on the stock suspension. Even though I have about 1200 miles on it, I wanted to do back to back runs over the same route. I picked a route over trails I have ridden many times before, and covers most of the terrain I commonly ride. I started out on some twisty, hardpacked trail. Few rocks and just smaller bumps and ditches. Then we ran into some rockier trail. Then into a sand wash, first narrow and twisty, then it opened up into a wider wash. We haven't had a good rain for a long time, so the wash was pretty choppy. Then onto more rocky trail. All of this was run at 15 to 25MPH, and up to 40MPH in the wider wash. This totaled 8.2 miles. Then it was onto about 4.6 miles of twisty gravel road. This road is moderately wash boarded. This was run at 25 to 40 MPH. I finished up with about 8 miles of pavement back home, at 55 MPH. I had my wife with me, as I ride with her at least 80% of the time.

Obviously, I knew what to expect from the stock suspension. I have raised the crossover rings which softened the ride a bit. I also had removed the sway bar, which helped the ride considerably. I have gotten used to the increased body roll. With these minor changes, I felt that the ride was tolerable, but I knew there was much improvement to be had.

After the initial test ride, I headed back to the shop to install the Shock Therapy shocks and springs. That took me about 45 minutes. I installed them just as I received them from Mr. Anonymous. The front sat noticeably high, but I decided to run it that way, planning to adjust ride height after the ride. We weren't more than 1/4 mile into the ride before I knew there was a big difference. Where before a bump was very harsh, it was now softened considerably. It soon became obvious that I was getting much more travel from the suspension, even over smaller bumps. It just soaked up the bumps. The biggest improvement was on the rocky trails, which is exactly where I needed improvement. Without even trying, I found that I was carrying more speed, and the ride was still much improved. I honestly didn't feel too much difference in the choppy wash. On the wash boarded gravel road, there was also significant improvement. There was no big change on the smooth pavement, and I didn't expect any. One thing that I learned very quickly, is that I could not run this suspension without the sway bar. The body roll was very high with the softened suspension, to the point that it was not safe.

I ran it back in the shop and checked the ride height. It was about 15 1/4" in the front, and 13" in the rear. Adjusting the front preload was pretty easy. I used the method of turning the entire spring. I moved the preloads up 1/2", and the crossovers the same amount. The rear was tougher. I could barely turn the spring, and using the spanners was very tedious. I remembered someone mentioning a strap wrench. I had a rubber strap wrench, and I found that it worked nicely for this job. I moved the rear preloads down about 5/8", and the crossovers the same amount. I also reinstalled the sway bar.

We then went out for a third test run. I didn't feel the need to run the whole route this time. We did the sandy hardpacked trail, then some of the rocky trail, then turned around and headed home. I thought that installing the sway bar had a very negligible effect on the ride quality. Obviously it greatly reduced the body roll. The machine really felt secure and planted now. The ride was a big improvement over stock. When I got back to the shop, I rechecked the ride height. It was now at 14 1/4" front, 13 7/8" rear. I think I will leave it at that for now. Again, I am on 30" (29.5" actual tires. I added up the weight of all of my accessories and came up with a total of 330 pounds! These items are listed in my sig. About 200 pounds of that is directly over the rear axle.

The bottom line is that I am very pleased with the improvement from the Shock Therapy shocks and springs. Now I understand what people are talking about when they say that Shock Therapy makes a huge improvement. I don't want to sound like a commercial for Shock Therapy. I have heard great things about other companies, notably Weller Racing. I tend to be a slower, cruising type of rider, and it sounds like Weller might be an even better fit for me. I know that this comparison has been done before, and by people more qualified than I. If I go on to the Weller suspension I will be able to compare that directly to the Shock Therapy setup.

In August I am going up to Utah for 8 to 10 days, then back to northern AZ for another week. I will probably put 800 or more miles on my Talon on that trip. Mr Anonymous has graciously allowed me to use his shocks for that trip, so I will give them a good trial. I will let you know if there are any changes or updates.

 

[Lil_Steve]

Great feedback Tom!