Soooooo any ideas why my airbox filled with oil?

[HondaTech]

No idea why it filled with oil but I just installed a crankcase vent assembly to stop my engine from sucking in hot dirty crankcase air......
View attachment 291097
View attachment 291098

Not to say it doesnt happen, but ive never taken a crankcase vent hose off a Pioneer or Talon valve cover and there been evidence of oil in the hose.

I dont believe my GM has ever seen any on hos Jackson Turbo race car either.

 

[Admin]

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Not to say it doesnt happen, but ive never taken a crankcase vent hose off a Pioneer or Talon valve cover and there been evidence of oil in the hose.

I dont believe my GM has ever seen any on hos Jackson Turbo race car either.

How is the crankcase vent routed on a turbo car? Can't be in the intake/airbox like stock or it would get pressurized and blow engine gaskets out while under boost.

I just got done cleaning oil mist out of my throttle bodies, Intake boots and head so apparently the stock system can and will suck oil into the intake. Mine is probably because I overfilled the crankcase last time.....

 

[HondaTech]

How is the crankcase vent routed on a turbo car? Can't be in the intake/airbox like stock or it would get pressurized and blow engine gaskets out while under boost.

I just got done cleaning oil mist out of my throttle bodies, Intake boots and head so apparently the stock system can and will suck oil into the intake. Mine is probably because I overfilled the crankcase last time.....

It goes into the turbo inlet.

The stock airbox has a small piece of foam where the breather hose comes in that helps capture oil and filter the breather.

The stock air filter holds that piece of foam in with a small plastic piece that sticks out on top near the intake trumpets. Pioneer is on thr bottom i believe.

 

[sandbaja]

I'm also having second thoughts about the R2C filter I ordered. How the hell does that filter have more area than stock? Guess I should have paid more attention....

Any good engineering team would track any change in the product and closely control variables such as potting material used in the formulation. I've seen dozens of examples where a vendor would change materials in an assembly and only get caught after a collection of failures and I've also seen engineers just get it wrong or bean counters driving down the cost causing a weaker product. It could have been a bad mix batch or someone having a hangover day during creation or product mix change due to material shortages.

We just don't know what occurred behind the scene.

It is a risk and easy to second guess. I'm in that boat also.

I'm going with the company has 30 years of experience doing filtration in extreme environments and recognized the problem and fixed it. I'll be the first to call myself an "Estupido" if it fails on me.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

R2C has a great reputation in the sprint car/dirt track world and that's why I had no problem ordering a filter from them. After seeing these failures though I'm a bit leery about being a guinea pig for testing out their new design. Who says they got it right this time?

I'm also starting to lean towards making my own intake using a PwrTune throttle body plate with a pair of velocity stacks welded on. There are rumors floating around that this mod (with correct stack lengths) is a considerable boost in HP over the stock box. My buddy I race with at Texplex had one made for his Talon and says it's a very noticeable difference. 😎

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I’ve tried around 20 times to upload a picture but this website seems to be broken. (It was super slow yesterday but no movement today)

tap “upload” and it goes to 3% and stops.

no further.

safari view on an iPhone 11pro if anyone knows why it’s sucking.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Damn IPhones......

 

[CID]

I’ve tried around 20 times to upload a picture but this website seems to be broken. (It was super slow yesterday but no movement today)

tap “upload” and it goes to 3% and stops.

no further.

safari view on an iPhone 11pro if anyone knows why it’s sucking.

@Hondasxs

 

[Hondasxs]

@Hondasxs

Damn #NTC done broke it again...



Really I haven't a clue. But I'll check in a bit to see what I can find.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

ha now it works.
just had to threaten it.

pretty nasty filter.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Damn, that's not good at all. If I had to guess though I'd say your filter got built up with enough dust that it clogged to the point of creating a suction on the engine side. The filter flexed inward, tore and it all went to s*** from there. I hope your engine is OK.


Off to cancel my order, I can't chance that happening to my motor.

 

[sandbaja]

I don't think the potting material should have torn/ripped/broken in any condition. The engine should have just starved itself of oxygen and shut down IMO.

Hey, you have a secondary problem...those big @ss bugs that were sucked in.😮

 

[sandbaja]

Off to cancel my order, I can't chance that happening to my motor.

Risk Management...

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I don't think the potting material should have torn/ripped/broken in any condition. The engine should have just starved itself of oxygen and shut down IMO.

Hey, you have a secondary problem...those big @ss bugs that were sucked in.😮

View attachment 291159

Is it tearing at the hold down flange? Are the edges of the flange sharp? In my experience that type of material tears very easily once it's got any kind of slice in it no matter how shallow. Tightening the bracket down starts the problem and the flexing of the filter inward and back when dirty finishes it off.

 

[bumperm]

I don't think the potting material should have torn/ripped/broken in any condition. The engine should have just starved itself of oxygen and shut down IMO.

Hey, you have a secondary problem...those big @ss bugs that were sucked in.😮

View attachment 291159

^^^^This^^^

Even if loaded with gunk to the max, the filter media should not fail open. Even if tightened down excessively (and most filter "containers" do not allow that degree of overtightening to occur), the filter should still not fail "open" so as to damage the engine.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Damn, that's not good at all. If I had to guess though I'd say your filter got built up with enough dust that it clogged to the point of creating a suction on the engine side. The filter flexed inward, tore and it all went to s*** from there. I hope your engine is OK.


Off to cancel my order, I can't chance that happening to my motor.

I think your assessment is accurate.

potentially the oil from the crankcase vent became a self propagating thing.

plugged filter causes more oil mist, which causes higher suction, which causes more tearing and more oil ingestion.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

^^^^This^^^

Even if loaded with gunk to the max, the filter media should not fail open. Even if tightened down excessively (and most filter "containers" do not allow that degree of overtightening to occur), the filter should still not fail "open" so as to damage the engine.

I was very careful not to overtighten the screws specifically for that reason.

the filter media was intact but the rubber tore like a cheap condom.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Is it tearing at the hold down flange? Are the edges of the flange sharp? In my experience that type of material tears very easily once it's got any kind of slice in it no matter how shallow. Tightening the bracket down starts the problem and the flexing of the filter inward and back when dirty finishes it off.

The flange is Powdercoated and has fairly smooth edges.

It appears the tear started at the screw holes.
Potentially because there’s not enough rigidity in the flange so it pinches tight at the screws but actually gets looser between the screws as you tighten them.

 

[CID]

Just thinking out loud here -

A couple of points on vacuum causing more oil ingestion -
1. Trying to feel where the crankcase vent enters the airbox, it 'feels like' it enters the dirty side of the airbox since I can't see up in there. That doesn't make sense because then oil fumes would contaminate the air filter, so I could be wrong.
2. IF the CC vent does enter on the dirty side, it wouldn't be affected by vacuum, that would happen on the clean side only.
3, But if the CC vent is on the clean side, oil would be drawn into the intake tubes directly not onto the filter although there could be propagation.

It 'feels like' the CC vent enters the airbox at the small dome, left of center. But I didn't notice that dome being vented (didn't look closely) and there's no oil stain around it but the photo was taken on a fairly new buggy.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Just thinking out loud here -

A couple of points on vacuum causing more oil ingestion -
1. Trying to feel where the crankcase vent enters the airbox, it 'feels like' it enters the dirty side of the airbox since I can't see up in there. That doesn't make sense because then oil fumes would contaminate the air filter, so I could be wrong.
2. IF the CC vent does enter on the dirty side, it wouldn't be affected by vacuum, that would happen on the clean side only.
3, But if the CC vent is on the clean side, oil would be drawn into the intake tubes directly not onto the filter although there could be propagation.

It 'feels like' the CC vent enters the airbox at the small dome, left of center. But I didn't notice that dome being vented (didn't look closely) and there's no oil stain around it but the photo was taken on a fairly new buggy.
View attachment 291281

Oil entry through foam at blue dots.
2 vent hoses.