Rock crawling strategy and lugging

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Hi All,

Had a fun day today driving and crawling up to Signal Peak in the Sierras.

The Talon was super fun and made it up everything. My rookie self got nervous a handful of tiems but was good practice.

Is it normal for it to simply lug and have no forward movement and no tire spin if super steep?

Is it simply geared too high? I was in AT low so not sure if it somehow was not in 1st gear or if it’s simply geared a bit high?

In those cases I had to roll back a foot or two then go forward with more power and momentum. Comparatively my buddies built Tacoma would either crawl up things or when it was too steep a ledge to get up he’d spin tires. The Talon simply didn’t move anything.

What are your strategies when crawling up steep, rocky terrain?

Again, was super fun and the Talon did great in general.

thx

s

 

[Admin]

 

[TripleB]

Hi All,

Had a fun day today driving and crawling up to Signal Peak in the Sierras.

The Talon was super fun and made it up everything. My rookie self got nervous a handful of tiems but was good practice.

Is it normal for it to simply lug and have no forward movement and no tire spin if super steep?

Is it simply geared too high? I was in AT low so not sure if it somehow was not in 1st gear or if it’s simply geared a bit high?

In those cases I had to roll back a foot or two then go forward with more power and momentum. Comparatively my buddies built Tacoma would either crawl up things or when it was too steep a ledge to get up he’d spin tires. The Talon simply didn’t move anything.

What are your strategies when crawling up steep, rocky terrain?

Again, was super fun and the Talon did great in general.

thx

s

Welcome to honda. That's my #1 b**** about these machines. I don't have the talon but he pioneer 1000 has the same issues. You will learn over time how to better manage it with your driving style. Bigger tires just makes it worse.

 

[CumminsPusher]

A slight bit of momentum helps the machine, mainly just keeping the r’s up to be in the powerband . In situations like that I’d consider manual mode though.

 

[CID]

I knew about it before mine did it so I was aware of the possibility. What helped me most is understanding just what’s happening. Our Talons idle at ~1500 rpm and the clutch engages at ~1800, there just isn’t any torque down there, it’s a law of physics. Just a slight bump or a little more momentum will solve it ‘most’ times. But there are times when more momentum is a BAD idea, then you’ll just have to wing it.

I climbed some steep stuff today at 10,000 foot altitude that had me wondering but the Talon just crawled right up it. And, yes, low range needs to be lower. IGR may be in my future if it only reduces Low Range, I do not want High Range lowered. Fwiw: I’m running 30” tires even tho I‘d love to be on 32’s.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Welcome to honda. That's my #1 b**** about these machines. I don't have the talon but he pioneer 1000 has the same issues. You will learn over time how to better manage it with your driving style. Bigger tires just makes it worse.

So is it the gearing?

A slight bit of momentum helps the machine. In situations like that I’d consider manual mode though.

Thanks, that seemed to work. Just a little less in control for coming off big rocks on the back side if have to power through it faster.

That said, made it up some pretty steep, rough stuff with now big drama so I’m still very happy.

just considering Rubicon trail so trying to learn my machine better

 

[CID]

So is it the gearing?



Thanks, that seemed to work. Just a little less in control for coming off big rocks on the back side if have to power through it faster.

That said, made it up some pretty steep, rough stuff with now big drama so I’m still very happy.

just considering Rubicon trail so trying to learn my machine better

Did you see the thread here where a guy did like $2400 damage to his X4 on the Rubicon trail?

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Oops. CID looks like you responded when I was typing. Thx

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Did you see the thread here where a guy did like $2400 damage to his X4 on the Rubicon trail?

Haha, yes I started that thread to find out people’s experience.

he said he had 4 guys at 220lbs each plus gear so maybe that contributed. I certainly can’t afford that for a weekend jaunt.

That is why I was wondering about the super slow crawl because if going up a steep rock I wouldn’t want to go too fast as would want to inch down the other side vs smash down the other side.

 

[PaulF]

I have 30's and here is what I have discovered.

If I pull up right against a vertical obstacle and "ease" into the throttle, the machine won't move. RPM goes to about 1800 and powers out. However, if I pull right against a vertical obstacle and "stab" the throttle quickly to about 1/2 throttle, the RPM jumps a little before the clutch engages. As soon as I start to climb the obstacle, I feather the throttle back slightly and I go right up nice and easy.

At first it was a little herky jerky but with some practice I have gotten real good at it. It even works with Hill Assist.

My theory is the RPM jumps quicker when you stab the throttle and the PCM doesn't react (or possibly programmed not to react) that fast and so the stall speed is raised slightly. My estimate (by the sound of the engine) is around 2200 to 2400 RPM putting the engine in a better part of the power band.

 

[Adam_20_Adam]

Haha, yes I started that thread to find out people’s experience.

he said he had 4 guys at 220lbs each plus gear so maybe that contributed. I certainly can’t afford that for a weekend jaunt.

That is why I was wondering about the super slow crawl because if going up a steep rock I wouldn’t want to go too fast as would want to inch down the other side vs smash down the other side.

Yeah that was me. I will say I experienced the same issue with crawling before Rubicon. So I installed the turbo. Problem fixed. Now I come to an obstacle Talon stalls slightly just slightly gas it turbo starts to spool pops right up over obstacle. FYI portals and 35" tires and high arch arms are on the way. Next trip to rubicon it'll be my b#&@*. No homo.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Yeah that was me. I will say I experienced the same issue with crawling before Rubicon. So I installed the turbo. Problem fixed. Now I come to an obstacle Talon stalls slightly just slightly gas it turbo starts to spool pops right up over obstacle. FYI portals and 35" tires and high arch arms are on the way. Next trip to rubicon it'll be my b#&@*. No homo.

What geardown %?

 

[Adam_20_Adam]

What geardown %?

30%

 

[Montecresto]

Is it normal for it to simply lug and have no forward movement and no tire spin if super steep?

YES, it’s causing me grief in the Rockies at higher elevations. I have waited long enough for an IGR for the sub trans but it’s apparently not coming, so I will be having a general IGR installed soon enough. Probably a 30%….

 

[CID]

I have 30's and here is what I have discovered.

If I pull up right against a vertical obstacle and "ease" into the throttle, the machine won't move. RPM goes to about 1800 and powers out. However, if I pull right against a vertical obstacle and "stab" the throttle quickly to about 1/2 throttle, the RPM jumps a little before the clutch engages. As soon as I start to climb the obstacle, I feather the throttle back slightly and I go right up nice and easy.

At first it was a little herky jerky but with some practice I have gotten real good at it. It even works with Hill Assist.

My theory is the RPM jumps quicker when you stab the throttle and the PCM doesn't react (or possibly programmed not to react) that fast and so the stall speed is raised slightly. My estimate (by the sound of the engine) is around 2200 to 2400 RPM putting the engine in a better part of the power band.

Thanks, Paul. My trailer fenders are narrower than the Talon so I have to climb over them (parking limitations needed a narrower trailer). Those steps have a sharp attack angle and, being on the trailer, I didn't want to jab the throttle but was in the process of learning that it worked better doing just that. Now I understand why. 👍

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

30%

Cool.
New top speed will only drop 3.9 mph with 35’s.

I’m considering larger tires after running 30% portals and 31’s. (It’s slow on the top end)

 

[HavasuDave]

Hi All,

Had a fun day today driving and crawling up to Signal Peak in the Sierras.

The Talon was super fun and made it up everything. My rookie self got nervous a handful of tiems but was good practice.

Is it normal for it to simply lug and have no forward movement and no tire spin if super steep?

Is it simply geared too high? I was in AT low so not sure if it somehow was not in 1st gear or if it’s simply geared a bit high?

In those cases I had to roll back a foot or two then go forward with more power and momentum. Comparatively my buddies built Tacoma would either crawl up things or when it was too steep a ledge to get up he’d spin tires. The Talon simply didn’t move anything.

What are your strategies when crawling up steep, rocky terrain?

Again, was super fun and the Talon did great in general.

thx

s

might have missed it, what size tires are you running?

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

might have missed it, what size tires are you running?

32" BFG KM3's on stock 15" rims

Tire pressure ended up at 10 rear 8 front

 

[CID]

32" BFG KM3's on stock 15" rims

Tire pressure ended up at 10 rear 8 front

After a rough day bouncing around in the rocks yesterday at 15 lbs, I dropped to 10 rear, 9 fronts to give that a try (on 8 ply, 30” Chicane RX tires + bead locks). I travel at much more sedate speeds when riding alone.

 

[HavasuDave]

32" BFG KM3's on stock 15" rims

Tire pressure ended up at 10 rear 8 front

Yes I noticed that with the same size and tires. Where it was good with 30” tires, 32” just raise the gear ratio so high it takes a bunch of throttle to do the technical climbing crawling and I feel less precise. I’m going back to 30” when these wear a bit more.