P1000 Rear suspension sag/camber

[fouled21]

I've read through a huge number of threads on here regarding suspension upgrade options. My pioneer has a bit too much sag on the rear suspension for my liking since I've added the spare tire carrier and spare tire. It has caused noticeable wear on the rear tires off centerline from a rather short amount of riding (250ish miles). From what I can tell, I will always be carrying a pretty decent load around.

My question is this. What is the most effective way to address this issue?

• New high clearance A-Arms with Camber Adjustment
• New Shocks (Fox, Elka, etc.)
• Combination of the two above

I'd rather not spend a crazy amount of money right now on it, but the issue is bugging me.

 

[Admin]

 

[NTCPrezJB]

I've read through a huge number of threads on here regarding suspension upgrade options. My pioneer has a bit too much sag on the rear suspension for my liking since I've added the spare tire carrier and spare tire. It has caused noticeable wear on the rear tires off centerline from a rather short amount of riding (250ish miles). From what I can tell, I will always be carrying a pretty decent load around.

My question is this. What is the most effective way to address this issue?

• New high clearance A-Arms with Camber Adjustment
• New Shocks (Fox, Elka, etc.)
• Combination of the two above

I'd rather not spend a crazy amount of money right now on it, but the issue is bugging me.

Stiffer springs is probably the cheapest way to get your ride height back with your desired extra load.

Not saying it is the route I would go but it would fix your sag.
Nomojic

 

[Jankyeye]

A arms with camber adjust can correct tire wear but will not change ride height. And vise versa for shocks.

 

[fouled21]

A arms with camber adjust can correct tire wear but will not change ride height. And vise versa for shocks.

So what you're saying is...

 

[ToddACimer]

If you like the stock shocks and stock a-arms I would check your static sag at your normal payload. Does your machine have the fancier self adjusting rear shocks or the preload adjustable shocks?

If you want improved ride, the RC basic shocks would be better, the RC vertex shocks would likely be good. The Honda Fox shocks are decent but much improved with a spring swap and any custom adjustable shocks will be a huge improvement. The biggest thing for ride quality on the pioneers is spring rate and preload. I really tried the soft spring, minimal preload and low CG approach and you're going to be unhappy with G-outs and tire rub. At this point my setup is pretty well dialed and happy in whoops and big bumps. The big difference was ignoring unloaded camber and machine height. I'm now set at 30% static sag with 600lbs on the front seat. I took this approach as my typical payload is 2 adults up front and a little cargo or myself and 2 kids plus a cooler or tire.

You will not nail the ride quality or alignment on these machines until you measure it all at your normal payload. I've had stock shocks, Fox Shocks and stage 4 Elkas. The best bang for your buck is going to be a fox shocks with the right spring but a fox shock with single rate springs that are close can work very well and be easy to make adjustments.

 

[fouled21]

If you like the stock shocks and stock a-arms I would check your static sag at your normal payload. Does your machine have the fancier self adjusting rear shocks or the preload adjustable shocks?

If you want improved ride, the RC basic shocks would be better, the RC vertex shocks would likely be good. The Honda Fox shocks are decent but much improved with a spring swap and any custom adjustable shocks will be a huge improvement. The biggest thing for ride quality on the pioneers is spring rate and preload. I really tried the soft spring, minimal preload and low CG approach and you're going to be unhappy with G-outs and tire rub. At this point my setup is pretty well dialed and happy in whoops and big bumps. The big difference was ignoring unloaded camber and machine height. I'm now set at 30% static sag with 600lbs on the front seat. I took this approach as my typical payload is 2 adults up front and a little cargo or myself and 2 kids plus a cooler or tire.

You will not nail the ride quality or alignment on these machines until you measure it all at your normal payload. I've had stock shocks, Fox Shocks and stage 4 Elkas. The best bang for your buck is going to be a fox shocks with the right spring but a fox shock with single rate springs that are close can work very well and be easy to make adjustments.

It has the self-leveling shocks on it. Not really impressed with them. Long term was going to look at upgrading regardless. I know the machine will never have a sport suspension, but I'd like a much better ride.

I agree the fox setup looks like the best bang for the buck. I'd definitely need some help figuring out the spring size change if I go that route.

I would also think for fine tuning, I need to bite the bullet and go ahead and get the rear Superatv a-arms for the camber adjustment capability.

 

[ToddACimer]

It has the self-leveling shocks on it. Not really impressed with them. Long term was going to look at upgrading regardless. I know the machine will never have a sport suspension, but I'd like a much better ride.

I agree the fox setup looks like the best bang for the buck. I'd definitely need some help figuring out the spring size change if I go that route.

I would also think for fine tuning, I need to bite the bullet and go ahead and get the rear Superatv a-arms for the camber adjustment capability.

The stock rear arms are beefy. If you're not looking to increase ride height from stock, you really don't need them for correct geometry. I'm probably 2" taller than stock but softer with more wheel travel. I've fought a bit to maintain the soft ride but also keep my 31s off the doors and rear roll cage bar. Stock, door rub will be your issue. The longer wheelbase of the Superatv arms seems to wheel hop less.

 

[someguy1313]

maybe RC shocks and these??

S3 Power Sports Honda Pioneer 1000 HD Springs

Shop Honda Pioneer 1000 HD Springs in the S3 Power Sports store! Verify fitment and compatibility, check product specs, and read reviews!

s3powersports.com

 

[ToddACimer]

maybe RC shocks and these??

S3 Power Sports Honda Pioneer 1000 HD Springs

Shop Honda Pioneer 1000 HD Springs in the S3 Power Sports store! Verify fitment and compatibility, check product specs, and read reviews!

s3powersports.com

RC shocks are a good option but it's a lot cheaper to measure the ID and OD of the original springs and order the correct spring rate. I would not order the springs from s3. Summit, Dave's off-road and several others will have options for 25-40% that price

 

[someguy1313]

RC shocks are a good option but it's a lot cheaper to measure the ID and OD of the original springs and order the correct spring rate. I would not order the springs from s3. Summit, Dave's off-road and several others will have options for 25-40% that price

this is good to know! by chance does anyone have experience doing this, know the ID and OD of the originals and have any they ordered from Summit or Daves Off Road that worked well? Mine is a farm vehicle and frequently loaded pretty heavy on the rear.

 

[ToddACimer]

this is good to know! by chance does anyone have experience doing this, know the ID and OD of the originals and have any they ordered from Summit or Daves Off Road that worked well? Mine is a farm vehicle and frequently loaded pretty heavy on the rear.

I have ordered springs for both my Wildcat and my Pioneer (among other larger vehicles). I recently took the time to pull the original spring rates from my Elkas for reference. That is pasted below. If you're looking for drive around with a higher payload in the rear, it would be good to take into account how much weight that is. A lot of guys are running 325 and 350lb/in rear springs which would be necessary for rear passengers or additional payload. I don't see a reason to go stiffer in the front. If I went to a stiffer rear sprint I'd probably try a longer spring to increase the coil count and reduce preload. That would depend on your shock choice

Elka springs:
Front springs are Coil Spring, Part No B4.5X356, 2.53in. ID, 252 lbs/in rate, 14.01 in. long
Rear springs are Coil Spring, Part No B5.4X305, 2.53in. ID, 303 lbs/in rate, 12 in. long

 

[Remington]

Combination of the two above

 

[Scoop]

Fox QS3 adjustable shocks and appropriate springs for your typical loaded weight. IMHO, if you're gonna swap springs, don't waste your time, money, and effort reusing the factory POS non-adjustable shocks. If you have the cash, then yes, SATV a-arms as well. All three is exactly what I did with my '21 P1K5 Deluxe.

 

[Remington]

Fox QS3 adjustable shocks and appropriate springs for your typical loaded weight. IMHO, if you're gonna swap springs, don't waste your time, money, and effort reusing the factory POS non-adjustable shocks.

 

[fouled21]

Fox QS3 adjustable shocks and appropriate springs for your typical loaded weight. IMHO, if you're gonna swap springs, don't waste your time, money, and effort reusing the factory POS non-adjustable shocks. If you have the cash, then yes, SATV a-arms as well. All three is exactly what I did with my '21 P1K5 Deluxe.

Alright, I went ahead and ordered the rear SuperATV arms. I've pretty much decided to take the Fox QS3 route. I'm going to do a bit more digging on the subject before I commit to the spring/shock combo.

 

[ToddACimer]

Alright, I went ahead and ordered the rear SuperATV arms. I've pretty much decided to take the Fox QS3 route. I'm going to do a bit more digging on the subject before I commit to the spring/shock combo.

Why didn't you order the front arms to match?

 

[fouled21]

Why didn't you order the front arms to match?

Well...I'm like one of those site supervisors that has purchase order approval amount limits. As long as it's under a certain amount, I don't have to get approval from upper management. Go over that amount, and you get caught up in all kinds of paperwork, meetings, and usually quite the cussing. I'm sure most of you understand. Lol.

 

[ODAMO]

Who hasn’t paid for half of something with credit card and the other half with money orders to give the acct. dept. the illusion of low cost.
😉