P1000 Pioneer won't turn over

[StewB]

When I turn the key in my P1k-5 the dash turns on but the starter does not even try to crank.
The machine is less than six months old and has an isolator dual battery with a voltage meter - reads 13 volts. I even left a battery tender on for an hour and no luck. It's hard to tell if the solenoid kicks. I also shifted to N and H and tried to start it - nope.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Admin]

 

[CMB]

Check all the ground cables. Make sure they are tight.

 

[StewB]

Check all the ground cables. Make sure they are tight.

I will. Thanks.

 

[906UP]

1st, Try while pressing the brake, if it doesn't crank go to step 2
2nd, get someone to help you, use a 12v test light and see if there is power at the starter while helper turns the key

Report back with findings

 

[hibbert]

I bet its your main battery negative terminal is loose

 

[bumperm]

I bet its your main battery negative terminal is loose

Either terminal for that matter.

If you panel voltmeter reads main battery voltage, there's an easy check, when turning the key to the start position, if the voltage stays the same, it's not a loose battery terminal. If the voltage drop precipitously, it's could be several things, including a loose battery connection, bad starter, sulfated battery with only surface charge, frozen engine (somehow?), etc.

If the voltage doesn't drop when you turn the key, the problem is more likely in the circuit from the battery, to start switch, to any interlocks (gear lever position etc.), to starter solenoid. Not being familiar with my Honda yet, I would not advise you to do the old mechanic's trick of shorting across the solenoid's contactor terminals to crank the starter - besides making sparks it could damage some of the new fangled do-dads.

If you have a voltmeter (or even a test light), and another person to help, you can check to see if you have voltage on the starter solenoid's small terminals with the key in "start" position. Then work back from there to see where you lose voltage.

 

[DIRTBILY]

Is your volt meter dual or just single? Should have a dual meter with 2 batteries. If I want to charge a battery I have to disconnect any parasitic draw then charge the battery, then reconnect everything. That's with my charger, yours may be different

 

[StewB]

I'm writing this reply to thank everyone for their help and explain what I did (following suggestions)
Most importantly, I'm writing this to add to the scientific knowledge of the community.

Checked the terminals - they were fine. Wouldn't turn over.
Checked the 10A fuse - it was fine.
Used a 12 v needle tip auto test light to confirm ignition power with the fuse out - it was fine.
Pulled a bunch of plastic body pins and disassembled under the bed and the front seat to track down the positive terminal on the starter.
Used the 12 v needle tip auto test light to check ignition power at the starter terminal - both the light and the starter turned on.

What?

I was really thinking the problem was in the solenoid (accuator) and I tested the terminal first because it was easier to find and reach. Now it starts every time like normal. Not fixing a problem is aggravating, but fixing it and not understanding why is worse. Needed closure.

My SWAG is that a stuck relay needed to be tripped or reset and the power shot from the 12v light on the starter side was good enough.

For others, you may not have to disassemble anything to do this. If you can pinch a bit between the plastic behind the seats and can reach in through the oil level check flap on the rear driver's side console, you can stab the positive starter terminal to see if it works for you. It's about 7" fore of the oil level check cap. Bless you if it works.

Thanks once again.

(Scientific Wild A__ Guess)

 

[DIRTBILY]

If it works, it works! Glad to hear it's running!

 

[StewB]

If it works, it works! Glad to hear it's running!

Thanks DirtBily - and specific to your help: I have a dual volt meter with an isolator - both registered just under 13 volts, which is normal when it sits for a couple of days. The battery tender/charger that I use is wired direct to the main battery and won't put the batteries up over 13 volts. When I would key the ignition and hold, neither battery dropped. Given the isolator and that there wasn't drain, I moved past parasitic drain or bad battery and started looking under the belly of the beast.

 

[StewB]

1st, Try while pressing the brake, if it doesn't crank go to step 2
2nd, get someone to help you, use a 12v test light and see if there is power at the starter while helper turns the key

Report back with findings

Report completed. Thanks!

 

[bumperm]

Yup, intermittent electrical problems are the worst, as it's difficult to troubleshoot when the problem "isn't there". My 8 year Navy background was in electronics (ET1), and my CA electricians license is dormant, I'm 'sposed to be retired - - so I have half a clue, though I sure wouldn't want to live in a house I wired. Anyway, here's some tips:

1) If you happen to be in the Navy, when all else fails, give it a floatation test. (Okay, no help there.)

2) For a problem that just fixed itself, wiggle wires and plugs, as an intermittent connection is often causal. In this example, it'll help to have two people, one to tug gently on wires while the other tries the start switch.

3) If the problem is an intermittent short that's blowing fuses, it's costly to keep replacing them during testing. Remove the fuse and connect a test lamp in its place. When the light is on, the circuit is drawing current - if everything is turned off, that current is due to the short - wiggle wiring etc. (A 12 volt incandescent car tail/brake lamp bulb works well for a test light as it draws a couple of amps - solder wires to it, then cover the bulb with clear silicone caulk so it won't break in your tool box and won't burn your hand when in use.)

 

[russknight]

Next time it won't turn over, try a steeper incline

 

[906UP]

Report completed. Thanks!

Happy it's working again but it can be frustrating when you don't find a problem, thanks for the follow up.

 

[WagginTail]

Next time it won't turn over, try a steeper incline

And more speed

 

[StewB]

Yup, intermittent electrical problems are the worst, as it's difficult to troubleshoot when the problem "isn't there". My 8 year Navy background was in electronics (ET1), and my CA electricians license is dormant, I'm 'sposed to be retired - - so I have half a clue, though I sure wouldn't want to live in a house I wired. Anyway, here's some tips:

1) If you happen to be in the Navy, when all else fails, give it a floatation test. (Okay, no help there.)

2) For a problem that just fixed itself, wiggle wires and plugs, as an intermittent connection is often causal. In this example, it'll help to have two people, one to tug gently on wires while the other tries the start switch.

3) If the problem is an intermittent short that's blowing fuses, it's costly to keep replacing them during testing. Remove the fuse and connect a test lamp in its place. When the light is on, the circuit is drawing current - if everything is turned off, that current is due to the short - wiggle wiring etc. (A 12 volt incandescent car tail/brake lamp bulb works well for a test light as it draws a couple of amps - solder wires to it, then cover the bulb with clear silicone caulk so it won't break in your tool box and won't burn your hand when in use.)

Had to laugh. My dad gave me 15 minutes of training and sent me to wire lights and outlets in two bedrooms. Within 3 years half the outlets were dead, but the house didn't burn down so I felt good about that. His repair tips always included "hit it with a bigger hammer."