P700 Pioneer 700 excesive starter motor load

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Augie

New Member
Jul 1, 2018
13
6
3
Canada
Ownership

  1. 500

  2. 700-2

  3. 700-4
Hello I started this post. I still can not find the problem . Have changed all parts at the rear of motor sprague clutch and torque gear. No luck stock honda starter no luck new stronger battery no luck . Even pulled the plugs turned over motor .it seems like the motor is dragging with out a load. We have 3 700s. 2 are bad one is perfect. Put starter from good 700 in bad 700. There is definitely more drag on bad 700 even with no plugs. Have changed torque converters as well on one of our other 700s no luck. Problem has to be in tranny or motor. Has anybody out there figured this problem. Honda has been no help as well. I think I'm going to Yamahas
 
A

Atv guy

New Member
May 8, 2021
2
6
3
Leavenworth
Ownership

  1. 700-2
I have a bike shop and a customer brought his side by side in rebuild engine top end starter strip out. After reviewing these forms I believe I'm going to look more into the automatic decompression release. If the engine tries to fire due to week spring on cam while trying to crank this seems to me it could cause starter issue
 
A

Augie

New Member
Jul 1, 2018
13
6
3
Canada
Ownership

  1. 500

  2. 700-2

  3. 700-4
I have a bike shop and a customer brought his side by side in rebuild engine top end starter strip out. After reviewing these forms I believe I'm going to look more into the automatic decompression release. If the engine tries to fire due to week spring on cam while trying to crank this seems to me it could cause starter issue
We have a rental company I have had up to 7 700s all have same issue. We do have 1 700 aftermarket starter works great. I put them some by side pulled the spark plug so there is no load on the motor. The good 700 sound quieter as if it has no load . The bad one with spark plug removed still sounds as it is under load. Can it be something on the front of the motor. Such as torque converter or solenoid valves causing a load. I even checked compression to verify decompressed was working ok . I only got around 60 to 70 psi. So compressor is working ok. Any thoughts
 
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DG Rider

DG Rider

Member: Triple Clutch Club
Lifetime Member
Aug 14, 2013
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42,993
113
Casa Grande, AZ
Ownership

  1. 700-2
We have a rental company I have had up to 7 700s all have same issue. We do have 1 700 aftermarket starter works great. I put them some by side pulled the spark plug so there is no load on the motor. The good 700 sound quieter as if it has no load . The bad one with spark plug removed still sounds as it is under load. Can it be something on the front of the motor. Such as torque converter or solenoid valves causing a load. I even checked compression to verify decompressed was working ok . I only got around 60 to 70 psi. So compressor is working ok. Any thoughts
All the same? Wow...

Go read my post (#4). How easy does it rotate with plugs removed? Honestly, at times, the weight of your hand on the ratchet should rotate it pretty easy. Then there will be lifters riding up on cams and such that will load it a bit.

Is it hard to turn all the time?
Is there a touch of free movement before being hard? This could mean something like a cam or oil pump seizing (the slop in the chain will give a touch of free movement).
Pull the back cover and remove the starter gears. Does it now turn free? That would narrow it down.
May have to just start taking stuff out until you find the load.
 
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A

Augie

New Member
Jul 1, 2018
13
6
3
Canada
Ownership

  1. 500

  2. 700-2

  3. 700-4
Once started
All the same? Wow...

Go read my post (#4). How easy does it rotate with plugs removed? Honestly, at times, the weight of your hand on the ratchet should rotate it pretty easy. Then there will be lifters riding up on cams and such that will load it a bit.

Is it hard to turn all the time?
Is there a touch of free movement before being hard? This could mean something like a cam or oil pump seizing (the slop in the chain will give a touch of free movement).
Pull the back cover and remove the starter gears. Does it now turn free? That would narrow it down.
May have to just start taking stuff out until you find the load.
Once started it runs great . No abnormal noise idles smooth lots of power. But I will pull the rear plug and turn the motor by hand and check that again
 
P

Paulmac41

New Member
Jun 2, 2021
1
2
3
Moncton NB
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Hello, I'm new to this forum. Bought my first sxs, a used 2016 Pioneer 700-2 with 6000 miles in March 2020. Dealer told me the previous owner had just replaced the starter before trading it in. Around 3 months and perhaps 30 total starts, it would simply grind and spin when we turned the key. Yes, I know to get off the key as soon as it fires and starts. It starts a little hard and takes a few tries to finally catch and run. I pulled the starter and ID'd that the starter teeth were significantly worn down and that the previous owner had installed one of the cheaper $50 Taiwanese starters off the web. I learned from the dealer that the lower priced ones typically have softer metal gear teeth and that is likely why it failed so quick. So I bought a higher priced starter at around $115 and installed it. Wasn't ready to pop $400 for an OEM Honda starter. This $115 starter lasted exactly one start. We rode for 30 minutes, shut it off, and it wouldn't actuate after that. Batter, relay, cables all good. Pulled the starter out and removed the housing and found one of the four magnets cracked in half. Broke down once more and finally spent the big bucks for original Honda starter. Installed it July 19th and it worked immediately though the machine was still a little hard to start and usually would take 2 or 3 attempts at turning over before it would fire and run. I only use fresh non-oxy fuel. On Dec 6th the damn starter began to grind again during a difficult starting session and ended up just spinning and grinding again without ever effectively rotating the motor sufficiently to start it. Had to abandon it in the woods and drag it out with a tractor. Have pulled this latest starter and the teeth are worn somewhat though still appear sufficient to mesh and rotate the motor. I can reach inside the engine and rotate the ring gear freely with one finger in one direction only but cannot rotate it in the opposite direction due to the one way clutch. I'm at a loss what to do next and am very disappointed in my purchase. Thought I was buying the best machine out there. Any help out there? My machine is parked in a field under a tarp in a Minnesota January so working on it in the cold is quite a challenge.

Thank you
I went through 3 starters before checking the valves. The intake side spec is .006 and mine was .013. Thus causing twice the compression as normal because the valve was not opening enough. Strangly enough it would run normal like thus. Mine is a 2017 Pioneer 700.
 
T

tmkaz96

New Member
Sep 29, 2021
1
1
3
Arizona
Ownership

  1. 700-2

  2. 1000-3
Any new ideas on how to make these Pioneer 700s quit eating starters. I'm running OEM starters, have changed the torque limiter assembly, tested compression to verify that the decompressor is working properly, and it still eats starters! After 30 or so starts the teeth on a new starter motor are all wore off and it is stripping over.

Very frustrating, any ideas of what to try next would be appreciated.
 
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Slackjaw

Slackjaw

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2020
286
459
63
Durham NC
Ownership

  1. 700-2
Does it turn over easily for instance when your checking for TDC (With spark plug installed and without?) That would rule out excessive load. Maybe the flywheel is loose?
 
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Red Dawg

Active Member
Mar 14, 2022
39
105
33
Ohio
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Hey guys I know this is an old post but I’m having the same issue. 2016 700-4. I replaced complete top end,cam,torque reducer, one way bearing, went through grounds,fresh battery, new starter. Starts good when cold. Once warm she will toast a starter. Did anyone find a fix for this?
 

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