P500 P500 Oil Change Problem

[Timber]

This may be a stupid question but did you take the filter cover back off to see if any threads were showing?

 

[Admin]

 

[Crookedcreek]

This may be a stupid question but did you take the filter cover back off to see if any threads were showing?

No question is stupid Timber, as far as I'm concerned. This has been a very long road, with no stone left unturned. The broken bolt is about flush, or a little below the surface of the block. Picked my P500 up from the dealer yesterday morning and began the process of removing the side panel and gas tank so we could gain straight line access to the bolt. As you know, there is limited space and vision to get to that area and I don't want to cause additional damage working blind. Today we plan to use a broken bolt removal tool I picked up last night at Menards, it looks like it has promise.
Getting the gas tank and side panel out of the way is a real pain, and I wouldn't wish a broken bolt on that filter cover on my worst enemy. That's why all the effort going into this thread so hopefully people are cautious moving forward with DIY oil changes.
Good luck with your dealer.

 

[Montecresto]

No question is stupid Timber, as far as I'm concerned. This has been a very long road, with no stone left unturned. The broken bolt is about flush, or a little below the surface of the block. Picked my P500 up from the dealer yesterday morning and began the process of removing the side panel and gas tank so we could gain straight line access to the bolt. As you know, there is limited space and vision to get to that area and I don't want to cause additional damage working blind. Today we plan to use a broken bolt removal tool I picked up last night at Menards, it looks like it has promise.
Getting the gas tank and side panel out of the way is a real pain, and I wouldn't wish a broken bolt on that filter cover on my worst enemy. That's why all the effort going into this thread so hopefully people are cautious moving forward with DIY oil changes.
Good luck with your dealer.

It was a result of your troubles that I took extreme caution with both the drain plug and the side cover bolts and had a successful oil change. I'm truly sorry for your troubles, but most appreciative that you've taken the time to produce this valuable thread. Still wish Honda put a spin on filter.

 

[Crookedcreek]

It was a result of your troubles that I took extreme caution with both the drain plug and the side cover bolts and had a successful oil change. I'm truly sorry for your troubles, but most appreciative that you've taken the time to produce this valuable thread. Still wish Honda put a spin on filter.

I'm glad it was of some value, that was my hope, that people would read it and be careful. Happy that yours went trouble free, best wishes.
A spin on filter would sure be an easy solution. If someone comes up with an aftermarket spin on filter adapter plate to replace the stock filter cover plate...I will be in the purchase line, and I doubt that I will be alone.

 

[Crookedcreek]

Got the broken bolt out and the P500 is now back in operation. Hope that never happens to anyone else.

 

[Peanut]

Hi all,
I've been watching this post for the last little while and sweating the whole time as I did my first oil change BEFORE this tread was up! It also caused me to do a little digging as I wanted to get to the bottom of the "9 lbf-ft (12 N-m, 1.2 kgf-m)" question. I've owned bikes and quads all my life and have and always worked on them myself. I was at The Honda Power center where I bought my 500 (they sell and work on everything from marine to street bikes) the other day and brought up this post. It was funny as we soon had two techs and a parts guy in the conversation. The info directly from their shop manual is 9 lbf-ft on the oil cover bolts. the tech told me he does not even use a full ratchet on a lot of newer machines in that situation. they use those small hand turned wrist ratchets that have a torque setting on them. the best advice he had was change those bolts after EVERY oil change(they do) I just bought 3 and paid $1.40. and always, always,always change out the crush washer on the drain plug.
Hopefully this will put some of you DIYers at ease! remember, go slow, get the right tools and replacement parts, and remember 9 lbf is just a squeak snug!
P.S. Just got done my second oil change and all is good, no bolt deformities or stretching. replaced all three any how ;-)

 

[Montecresto]

Got the broken bolt out and the P500 is now back in operation. Hope that never happens to anyone else.

Glad to hear it buddy!

 

[Timber]

Just wondering Crookedcreek if you got the new bolt to snug up to the 9ft/lb mark? I've put new ones in and still does not feel right. Even at 8 I can't seem to get the bottom one to click.

 

[Crookedcreek]

Just wondering Crookedcreek if you got the new bolt to snug up to the 9ft/lb mark? I've put new ones in and still does not feel right. Even at 8 I can't seem to get the bottom one to click.

A torque wrench did not go near those bolts this time, just hand tightened. Whatever you do...don't break that lower bolt. If you're inclined, go to the Honda Pioneer Forum and read my post there...it's more detailed that this one. Good luck.

 

[Montecresto]

A torque wrench did not go near those bolts this time, just hand tightened. Whatever you do...don't break that lower bolt. If you're inclined, go to the Honda Pioneer Forum and read my post there...it's more detailed that this one. Good luck.

Yep!!!!!!! Same here, I didn't use a torque wrench. I have no leaks at hand tight. There's just not that much pressure there.

 

[tjoreo]

@Timber I'm sorry for yours and Crookedcreek's troubles. I know I put it on somewhere and it might be the other forum, but these bolts are the same ones used in many honda machines. There are in my 03 foreman and my wife's 07 rancher. My foreman manual says to torque them to 7 ft/lbs, but the rancher manual says just to snug them. Not much pressure there and all you need to do is seal up the cover. I'm thinking you couldn't get to 9 because there is some residual oil in the hole which will throw your torque way off. Just snug is fine. If anything you don't want to pull the threads out of the motor. At least Crooked's was the bolt. Good Luck.

 

[Peanut]

same here...just did mine the other day and didn't even use a ratchet. just used the stubby screwdriver type handle that came with my 1/4" set. Took her out for a quick run and no leaks.

 

[Timber]

Hey peanut what part of vancouver island are you at?

 

[Peanut]

I'm in the South Island / Victoria area. We mostly ride on the west coast side of the Island, it's a bit of a drive but it's well worth it!

 

[dale5740]

I'm feeling somewhat foolish and apologetic right now! You forced me into going downstairs and getting my caliper to measure my bolts. Mine are only slightly less than shown on your caliper, but you are correct! Now that I concede (thank you for your diligence), I question why on earth would a major company like Honda (who is unquestionably metric) defy all convention and use an M5 head size on an M6 bolt? That's just asking for issues like this. With the "lever arm" of a 8mm head being diiferent than a 10mm head I would think that the values and accuracy of any torque wrench (regardless of quality) could be affected in addition to the actual bolt capacity being different than the charts (I'll let the engineers weigh in on that one!). On top of that, to not indicate the grade of bolt on the head. Looking back at the chart, an M6 bolt (with a 10mm head) would have to be a 10.9 grade (11 lb. ft. capacity) to withstand the 9 lb. ft. specified. AN 8.8 or 9.8 grade is good for 7.5lb. ft. I don't know what grade these are, but to have stretched that much before failure, would sure seem to indicate the are "soft".
You have shed a whole new light on the subject that deserves more analysis...Thank You!
BTW, we did tighten all three bolts, in rotation, with a 6" long, 1/4" drive ratchet wrench before touching them with the torque wrench, for what I thought would be a "final snugging them up".
I'm going to the other forum to suggest looking here for this detail. Again, Thanks!

Edit: On second thought, I don't think the head size matters as related to torque values. The head is nothing more than an "attachment mechanism" for the lever arm (read wrench) to apply the torque. The resistance of the bearing surface of the bottom of the head against the contact surface may be an influence though(?). Anyone want to weigh in on this one?

I build all my own motors on my hayabusa drag bikes and they do the same thing with the bolts etc. they could def make it easier and less confusing but once u get to realize then its the same across the board I have broke off a few bolts in cases figuring it myself with a torque wrench. If u only rely on a torque wrench when tightening u better damn well know the specs lol