P500 First Service

[trigger]

Multi viscosity weight oils are measured by a viscometer. The rate of flow is measured at 40°C and 100°C. Based on the flow at 40°, it's given its "winter" grade. Based on its flow at 100° it's given its high temp grade.

In an engine, typically the engine oil will reach 100°C by design. That's the way it's designed so that any moisture that gets in the oil will steam off thru the crank case vent. For differentials, it takes them a little longer to warm up obviously due to not having combustion.

This is an interesting topic though as I've not read diff case temps and I may consider that just for my own curiosity.

If you would like to read more, this would be an interesting read.

Oil education

Damn, good stuff joey! Learned more about oil, reading that post, than I ever knew before. Sorry to hear that Mobil 1 isn't what I thought it was, that's what I run in my Sierra and my John Deere. Run Royal Purple in a little Cobalt that has 275k, she still purrs. Based on what I read, SAE 30 should stay 30 until it gets old and starts breaking down right?

 

[Admin]

 

[Montecresto]

I've never truly understood that crap. But for the sake of argument...wouldn't there be improvers in 90 to keep it 90...hmmmm

Oops, sorry trigger, no argument here buddy.

 

[Montecresto]

My idea is to change the oil more often due to that piece of _____ oil filter Honda stuck us with not less often. If the oil is changed often then it doesn't matter that we have a silver dollar size filter. And I have chain saws at all my properties and the oil will be repurposed for bar and chain oil. This is my approach to Hondas filter problem and not a mandate.

 

[joeymt33]

Damn, good stuff joey! Learned more about oil, reading that post, than I ever knew before. Sorry to hear that Mobil 1 isn't what I thought it was, that's what I run in my Sierra and my John Deere. Run Royal Purple in a little Cobalt that has 275k, she still purrs. Based on what I read, SAE 30 should stay 30 until it gets old and starts breaking down right?

I'm pretty sure it will thin out as it gets hotter but maybe we can find some data sheets on straight 30 for a definitive answer.

 

[trigger]

My idea is to change the oil more often due to that piece of _____ oil filter Honda stuck us with not less often. If the oil is changed often then it doesn't matter that we have a silver dollar size filter. And I have chain saws at all my properties and the oil will be repurposed for bar and chain. This is my approach to Hondas filter problem and not a mandate.

I see some logic in that assumption. I was always told that changing an oil filter is more important than changing the oil.
Oil holds its viscosity a bit longer than it's rated for and the filter is what takes out the crud.
When I first started running Royal Purple, I was told that the oil could go up to 15,000 miles but I would
have to change the filter out at 7500. Now they make filters that will last as long as the oil...so I'm told.

 

[joeymt33]

I'm pretty sure it will thin out as it gets hotter but maybe we can find some data sheets on straight 30 for a definitive answer.

Below is a pic of some specs for straight oils. It looks like the 30 weight oil drops viscosity a lot from 40° to 100°. My guess is it would continue to fall as the heat increases.

 

[Montecresto]

I see some logic in that assumption. I was always told that changing an oil filter is more important than changing the oil.
Oil holds its viscosity a bit longer than it's rated for and the filter is what takes out the crud.
When I first started running Royal Purple, I was told that the oil could go up to 15,000 miles but I would
have to change the filter out at 7500. Now they make filters that will last as long as the oil...so I'm told.

Well that's my point. I don't trust that little tiny pleated paper filter to clean my oil. That's why I change it at double Hondas interval schedule. And like I said, I repurpose it for bar and chain oil so I don't feel I'm wasting anything, and in doing so, I keep very clean oil in my engine at all times. Really trigger, it's the singular issue that I have with the P5, all the things that you hear members complaining about, power steering, no lockers and on and on I don't care about. I want a spin on filter.

 

[trigger]

Below is a pic of some specs for straight oils. It looks like the 30 weight oil drops viscosity a lot from 40° to 100°. My guess is it would continue to fall as the heat increases.
View attachment 17503

You'd think they would label it 30 S 5 then. Who wants an oil that thins out so much when it gets hot.
Seriously, why would they even recommend it for a combustion engine?
My apologies monte...you were right!
Thanks for the info joey, interesting to say the least.

 

[Sledge]

Aww, not that far, brother...what?...Maybe some Wisconsin, most of Illinois, you'd hardly notice Iowa on cruise control, a fair poke of Kansas, a day or 2 of Oklahoma, then you hit the Texas border and you're nearly halfway here!

I got loaded up with moose and elk meat in Colorado, so we'll eat well, and I'll buy the beer...Both ways!

I've had good working dogs all my life, and my Sally-girl is hands-down the best ever. If she didn't do what I wanted her to do, I just didn't make my wishes clear. Simple as that.

She never needs or gets a harsh word.

Meeting me might be disappointing, but getting to know Sally would be worth the trip, I promise.

I appreciate the encouragement, Trigger.

Joe

 

[joeymt33]

You'd think they would label it 30 S 5 then. Who wants an oil that thins out so much when it gets hot.
Seriously, why would they even recommend it for a combustion engine?
My apologies monte...you were right!
Thanks for the info joey, interesting to say the least.

Engines are designed to run at an OIL temp of approx 100°c or 212°f. Therefore oils are made to meet the viscosity speced by the engine designer. If you let your engine run hot, the oil will get thinner. If the engine's cooling system is in good condition, there is nothing to worry about.

For example, my lawn mower is an air cooled engine so the oil temp will continue to rise as the engine has no way of cooling itself other than a fan and heat sinks. Have you ever noticed how air cooled lawnmowers list a limit on the yard size they can cut? See the pics below, the designers know that this mower can only cut 1-2 acres before it gets too hot, so they list the "yard size". Commercial grade mowers are water cooked so they can cut all day long.





Above, I mentioned my mower being air cooled. I wanted to add a mulching kit and cut my larger yard without buying a much more expensive mower. So, I put a oil pressure gauge and a oil temp gauge so I could monitor those parameters. What I found out was that I had 40psi oil pressure at start up and 20 psi at 200°F. As the temp continued to rise, the oil pressure fell below 10psi which is not good at all. So, I installed an ATV oil cooler and fan which now allows me to keep the oil temp where it needs to be and I can cut all day long. Also, I added a huge FL1A ford truck filter because it's thread and gasket size is a perfect match. That almost doubled the oil capacity and more than doubled the filter size. Below are pics of that.







And all these parts were cheap. The fan was a eBay score and the gauges were cheap at O'Reilly auto parts.

 

[Montecresto]

Engines are designed to run at an OIL temp of approx 100°c or 212°f. Therefore oils are made to meet the viscosity speced by the engine designer. If you let your engine run hot, the oil will get thinner. If the engine's cooling system is in good condition, there is nothing to worry about.

For example, my lawn mower is an air cooled engine so the oil temp will continue to rise as the engine has no way of cooling itself other than a fan and heat sinks. Have you ever noticed how air cooled lawnmowers list a limit on the yard size they can cut? See the pics below, the designers know that this mower can only cut 1-2 acres before it gets too hot, so they list the "yard size". Commercial grade mowers are water cooked so they can cut all day long.

View attachment 17505

View attachment 17506

Above, I mentioned my mower being air cooled. I wanted to add a mulching kit and cut my larger yard without buying a much more expensive mower. So, I put a oil pressure gauge and a oil temp gauge so I could monitor those parameters. What I found out was that I had 40psi oil pressure at start up and 20 psi at 200°F. As the temp continued to rise, the oil pressure fell below 10psi which is not good at all. So, I installed an ATV oil cooler and fan which now allows me to keep the oil temp where it needs to be and I can cut all day long. Also, I added a huge FL1A ford truck filter because it's thread and gasket size is a perfect match. That almost doubled the oil capacity and more than doubled the filter size. Below are pics of that.

View attachment 17507

View attachment 17508

View attachment 17509

And all these parts were cheap. The fan was a eBay score and the gauges were cheap at O'Reilly auto parts.

Holy sh** Batman, I love that. Please figure out a way to put that big FL1A on my P5, please Joey!

 

[trigger]

Engines are designed to run at an OIL temp of approx 100°c or 212°f. Therefore oils are made to meet the viscosity speced by the engine designer. If you let your engine run hot, the oil will get thinner. If the engine's cooling system is in good condition, there is nothing to worry about.

For example, my lawn mower is an air cooled engine so the oil temp will continue to rise as the engine has no way of cooling itself other than a fan and heat sinks. Have you ever noticed how air cooled lawnmowers list a limit on the yard size they can cut? See the pics below, the designers know that this mower can only cut 1-2 acres before it gets too hot, so they list the "yard size". Commercial grade mowers are water cooked so they can cut all day long.

View attachment 17505

View attachment 17506

Above, I mentioned my mower being air cooled. I wanted to add a mulching kit and cut my larger yard without buying a much more expensive mower. So, I put a oil pressure gauge and a oil temp gauge so I could monitor those parameters. What I found out was that I had 40psi oil pressure at start up and 20 psi at 200°F. As the temp continued to rise, the oil pressure fell below 10psi which is not good at all. So, I installed an ATV oil cooler and fan which now allows me to keep the oil temp where it needs to be and I can cut all day long. Also, I added a huge FL1A ford truck filter because it's thread and gasket size is a perfect match. That almost doubled the oil capacity and more than doubled the filter size. Below are pics of that.

View attachment 17507

View attachment 17508

View attachment 17509

And all these parts were cheap. The fan was a eBay score and the gauges were cheap at O'Reilly auto parts.

No I didn't know that and, ironically, that D130 you show IS my lawn tractor.
Only have to mow about an acre though.

 

[joeymt33]

No I didn't know that and, ironically, that D130 you show IS my lawn tractor.
Only have to mow about an acre though.

I had a John Deere from lowes. This is what happened when I tried to cut 3 acres with it.....





In the above pics, the engine blew at 190 hours and was running Mobil 10-30 synthetic. I had to walk a pretty good ways across the yard to pic up all the pieces.

Now it has a new engine and it stays parked at my wife's office and still cuts about 2 acres but it has been good so far.


Now I cut about 1 acre with this: (sorry, only pic I have of the mower. Plus the pioneer keeps us legit).


I cut a lot more with this: the rotary cutter isn't attached but you get the point. I can now wait a lot longer between cuttings and the Kubota don't care.

 

[Montecresto]

I had a John Deere from lowes. This is what happened when I tried to cut 3 acres with it.....

View attachment 17510

View attachment 17511

In the above pics, the engine blew at 190 hours and was running Mobil 10-30 synthetic. I had to walk a pretty good ways across the yard to pic up all the pieces.

Now it has a new engine and it stays parked at my wife's office and still cuts about 2 acres but it has been good so far.
View attachment 17512

Now I cut about 1 acre with this: (sorry, only pic I have of the mower. Plus the pioneer keeps us legit).
View attachment 17513

I cut a lot more with this: the rotary cutter isn't attached but you get the point. I can now wait a lot longer between cuttings and the Kubota don't care.

View attachment 17514

Wow, I never knew that. I've got a 42" Cub Cadet that I've had for a dozen years now and been cutting five acres with it. I have no idea what it's acreage rating is and whether I'm exceeding it or not. I just thought you could get on a mower and mow all day if you wanted. Didn't think I'd be learning that on this forum.

 

[joeymt33]

Wow, I never knew that. I've got a 42" Cub Cadet that I've had for a dozen years now and been cutting five acres with it. I have no idea what it's acreage rating is and whether I'm exceeding it or not. I just thought you could get on a mower and mow all day if you wanted. Didn't think I'd be learning that on this forum.

I am sure there's built in cushion there. But I had a mulching kit and was cutting probably twice its recommended capacity. I also think that the Briggs & Stratton engine in those are low quality. I now have a Kohler in the Craftsman.

 

[Montecresto]

I am sure there's built in cushion there. But I had a mulching kit and was cutting probably twice its recommended capacity. I also think that the Briggs & Stratton engine in those are low quality. I now have a Kohler in the Craftsman.

Oh.......say no more. B&S was a damn good small engine way back in the day, but no longer. I went through 3 generators with BS motors at my remote solar powered cabin in 5 years. I finally bought a Honda and it's been in service for 14 years now. My Cub Cadets have Kholer too.

 

[Sledge]

I am sure there's built in cushion there. But I had a mulching kit and was cutting probably twice its recommended capacity. I also think that the Briggs & Stratton engine in those are low quality. I now have a Kohler in the Craftsman.

Lotsa good information here from you, Joey. I'm several times as smart about oil now as I was 2 hours ago. Really.

There's a punchline in there somewhere, but I'll leave it to someone else.

Thanks!

Joe

 

[Montecresto]

Wow, doing anything with one arm seems like it would be challenging but I think you could do it. Trying to imagine myself in that situation, I think you could wedge something against the cover of the oil filter to hold it in place while you thread the bolts back in. Would probably take a custom length of something, didn't really notice if something flat was behind it but it was a fairly tight area.
Just take a good look at it before attempting it. And yes, I agree with your logic of a small filter...
Texas is a little far for me or I'd offer to help a brother out. Might be worth the trip to hang with Sally though, definitely mans best friend!

TR1 actually posted a mechanism that holds the cover in place while you're threading the three bolts. I believe his pic is in @Hondasxs thread on changing oil.

 

[trigger]

I had a John Deere from lowes. This is what happened when I tried to cut 3 acres with it.....

View attachment 17510

View attachment 17511

In the above pics, the engine blew at 190 hours and was running Mobil 10-30 synthetic. I had to walk a pretty good ways across the yard to pic up all the pieces.

Now it has a new engine and it stays parked at my wife's office and still cuts about 2 acres but it has been good so far.
View attachment 17512

Now I cut about 1 acre with this: (sorry, only pic I have of the mower. Plus the pioneer keeps us legit).
View attachment 17513

I cut a lot more with this: the rotary cutter isn't attached but you get the point. I can now wait a lot longer between cuttings and the Kubota don't care.

View attachment 17514

Nice tractor joey. Had my eye on a Kubota compact with a back hoe attachment, pricey though.
Only 190 hrs on that John Deere is kinda scary, I'm also running Mobil 1 10w30 in mine.
Thanks for the insight, I had no idea. You are the oil guru now.

 

[Ichybod]

Not to disagree with your recommendation trigger, but just wanted you to know that it wouldn't be 140 in the winter. The higher number in the equation would be during the hot summer when the internal temps of the diff could make a straight 90 seem like sewing machine oil. Similar to the 10-40 engine oil you just used. The idea is that it would be at 10 during the winter for easier starts and positive lubrication once running. It would be at 40 during the hot summer. When you see 10W-40, the W stands for winter not weight as many people suppose. In multi viscosity oils, chemists add "viscosity improvers" that expand as temperatures rise, thus the heavier weight during summer.

So I picked up some Mobil 1 75w 140 LS (limited slip) gear oil, and didn't notice the LS designation until I got home. Is there any harm in using the LS in the differentials?