P700 EPS recall done + fuel pump. Now it dies when driving.

[DG Rider]

I spent a bit of time yesterday re-crimping the grounds in back. I also tapped into the three PCM grounds and ran separate wires to ground, effectively giving it 2 paths to ground.
I also want to add a good battery to chassis ground, as well go back and redo the crimps with some better quality terminals, as it seems like everything you can buy easily is cheap s***.

Don't know if it's placebo or not, but I'd swear the thing starts quicker now...

 

[Admin]

 

[Slackjaw]

I wonder about the effects of different ground potentials. Common is called common for a reason. Might be no issue.

 

[AUSXS]

I wonder about the effects of different ground potentials. Common is called common for a reason. Might be no issue.

Quick update. I have been running now without any engine cutout for months since the fix below.
PCM was replaced. New wiring harness and a new dedicated earth installed separate to the wiring harness.

 

[DG Rider]

Quick update. I have been running now without any engine cutout for months since the fix below.
PCM was replaced. New wiring harness and a new dedicated earth installed separate to the wiring harness.

Do you know the details of what/where the ground was added?

 

[DG Rider]

I decided I was unhappy with the terminals I added, so I redid them. The 1st were from copper from amazon...and were pretty much the same from everyone. They seemed a little flimsy compared to the factory stuff, and I eventually came to the conclusion that the factory were actually brass, not copper, or some combination thereof, and that's why the Amazon ones seemed kind flimsy. I was concerned that the retaining crimps wouldn't hold up.

So I ordered some from a place called Ferrules direct:

Ferrules Direct

Insulated Ferrules, Non-Insulated Ferrules, Terminals, Wire Ducts, Crimping Tools, Cable Accessories, Terminal Blocks, Push Buttons, Heat Shrink, Compression Lugs, Automotive Products, Wire Cutters, Wire Strippers

www.ferrulesdirect.com

Tin coated brass, and they are much more robust than the pure copper/cheap ones. For the record, they are called open barrel ring terminals, and despite the quality and proper tools, I still had to fiddle with them a bit, but am happy with how they went on. Seems an impossible task to create factory level wiring unless you have complete control over everything in the mix...and these terminals are actually hard to find.

One thought is to add a dab of solder to the end of the crimp...but this is actually counterproductive. The solder actually makes the wire subject to breaking as it tends to wick down the strands and isn't flexible. Think about how many wiring connections are soldered from the factory? The answer...almost none, and where it is used, strong measures are taken to stop the wire from moving. I also still want to add a battery to frame ground still, and I'm thinking I may do this off the wiring to the winch contacter under the hood somewhere, since it already goes to the battery.
This is the sort of thing that drives me crazy to do, but it is done.

Anyway...Today I took it out briefly in the same area as last time, for about an hour. Temps were over 100, but a few degrees cooler than last time. Nothing happened, but as we have seen, only time will tell.

 

[Brentc]

Thanks for keeping this thread going with updates. My friend has a 19 700-4 deluxe with the same problems up here in AK.

 

[DG Rider]

Thanks for keeping this thread going with updates. My friend has a 19 700-4 deluxe with the same problems up here in AK.

Has there been attempts to fix it?

 

[AUSXS]

Do you know the details of what/where the ground was added?

Sorry I missed this. Dedicated extra earth from PCU to at least the rear of the frame but I will check. I assume wherever the wiring harness earths.

 

[DG Rider]

Sorry I missed this. Dedicated extra earth from PCU to at least the rear of the frame but I will check. I assume wherever the wiring harness earths.

Thanks.

I cut an spliced the 3 grounds to the ECM adding a 2nd wire to each and running them to a single eyelet that I secured to the backside of the bolt for the existing grounds, giving 2 separate grounds for each wire...

The goal was to provide solid ground to the ECM while "back feeding" ground into the existing harness in case there was a break or bad crimp somewhere that might be effecting something else. Time will tell.

I was at a dealer today looking at a Yamaha, but they had some 2022 700's. We know the part # has changed for the harness and (I believe) ECM, but a quick peek at the ground points show them to be identical.

 

[NRichardson]

Has there been attempts to fix it?

I was hoping the issue was the fuel pump recall. That has been replaced and it is clear that was not the problem, unit still dying. A lot more frequently then some of the others. Also does not die at idle, usually when just starting from a stop, even in reverse. Will also do it at full speed though. My display reboots also.
for troubleshooting, I am now doing some continuity tests on the grounds, may add another. I’ll check out the ignition harness, maybe order new. Then I’ll order new ecm.

 

[DG Rider]

I was hoping the issue was the fuel pump recall. That has been replaced and it is clear that was not the problem, unit still dying. A lot more frequently then some of the others. Also does not die at idle, usually when just starting from a stop, even in reverse. Will also do it at full speed though. My display reboots also.
for troubleshooting, I am now doing some continuity tests on the grounds, may add another. I’ll check out the ignition harness, maybe order new. Then I’ll order new ecm.

I take it you're the friend?
Make sure you read through this whole thread. A lot of info.

I did the fuel pump recall. The reason is that the 1st time mine did it, I did not catch the dash reboot. The reboot is a clear sign of something electrical...if it were the pump, it'd just bog down and die while the dash would stay active.

I cleaned the grounds and did an ignition switch. That seemed to fix it for a few months...then bam, it did it again. I cleaned the grounds again and also did ANOTHER switch thinking there was a bad batch. I also did a new ECM. Again, it seemed to be ok for several weeks, then started again.
I then recrimped the grounds and added extra as you saw above, but I really haven't had a chance to test it much.

 

[WagginTail]

I was hoping the issue was the fuel pump recall. That has been replaced and it is clear that was not the problem, unit still dying. A lot more frequently then some of the others. Also does not die at idle, usually when just starting from a stop, even in reverse. Will also do it at full speed though. My display reboots also.
for troubleshooting, I am now doing some continuity tests on the grounds, may add another. I’ll check out the ignition harness, maybe order new. Then I’ll order new ecm.

The OP says if he puts it neutral quick enough then it will stay running. Have you tried that?

 

[NRichardson]

Yeah, I am the friend Brent mentioned above. I read through all the pages of this thread. I have not tried putting in neutral real quick to see if that keeps it running. I haven’t had time to troubleshoot since getting the fuel pump recall done a few days ago.
The dealer I bought the unit from called the Honda tech line for me. They reported not seeing many issues like this. They suggested checking the grounds as we have discussed, testing or replacing the main power relay, testing continuity on the wiring harness leads, and replacing the ecm.

 

[DG Rider]

Something like 30 miles today, and decently warm at the beginning (I saw a cab temp just over 100 while sitting). No issues, but it'll take many months and miles to say if this was the fix.

 

[Trevorblank46]

I have a 2018 p700 - 2 deluxe , and am having these exact same issues. I don't use my machine much to go on long rides, I use it more for work around my property. (spraying weeds, pulling a mower. Ect.) if I'm just zipping around my property quick from here to there I don't have any issues. But if I'm usinging it to pull or go really slow when it's warm out I start having the issues. The display blinks off, engine shuts off, all lights flash, get the hello honda. I can immediately start it back up and then it just continues to happen until it completely cools. Next day I'm good to go until it gets hot. I have experienced the sliding it into neutral trick to keep it running. That does seem to help to limp it home without having to start it several times. I also have never had it die at idle. But it will shut off in drive or reverse. This has only happened when the machine is up to full operating temp ( however the temp gauge is kind of a joke, has anyone ever seen it go above two bars?)

Things I've done to try to troubleshoot:

I took apart all grounds and scuffed them up really good and the frame where they mount, and then coated them with dielectric grease.
Seemed like this may have helped for awhile.

I thought maybe there was some thermal protection somewhere, so while it was idling I held a garden hose to the radiator to try to cool the machine off. I was able to get the temp gauge to show low. Put it in gear, made it about 15 feet and it died. So I'm pretty sure it's not water temp related, but definitely seems temp related somehow.

After reading this entire thread, I though maybe the ecm/pcm is getting too hot, so I rode around with the hood off and the seat removed to try to get better airflow. (ridding on a piece of plywood on the drivers side is not a very fun ride FYI. But it's for science) it did seem to help but wasn't as hot of a day.

Today is going to be 92 degrees here and I have more weed spraying to do. (3mph for a couple of hours) I'm sure it'll happen again and then I can keep trying different things. I guess it's probably time to start throwing parts at it. It just doesn't seem like we have it narrowed down to one particular thing.

Thanks for everyone's hard work and effort documenting everything you've tried. I'm pretty sure we'll get it eventually.

 

[DG Rider]

I have a 2018 p700 - 2 deluxe , and am having these exact same issues. I don't use my machine much to go on long rides, I use it more for work around my property. (spraying weeds, pulling a mower. Ect.) if I'm just zipping around my property quick from here to there I don't have any issues. But if I'm usinging it to pull or go really slow when it's warm out I start having the issues. The display blinks off, engine shuts off, all lights flash, get the hello honda. I can immediately start it back up and then it just continues to happen until it completely cools. Next day I'm good to go until it gets hot. I have experienced the sliding it into neutral trick to keep it running. That does seem to help to limp it home without having to start it several times. I also have never had it die at idle. But it will shut off in drive or reverse. This has only happened when the machine is up to full operating temp ( however the temp gauge is kind of a joke, has anyone ever seen it go above two bars?)

Things I've done to try to troubleshoot:

I took apart all grounds and scuffed them up really good and the frame where they mount, and then coated them with dielectric grease.
Seemed like this may have helped for awhile.

I thought maybe there was some thermal protection somewhere, so while it was idling I held a garden hose to the radiator to try to cool the machine off. I was able to get the temp gauge to show low. Put it in gear, made it about 15 feet and it died. So I'm pretty sure it's not water temp related, but definitely seems temp related somehow.

After reading this entire thread, I though maybe the ecm/pcm is getting too hot, so I rode around with the hood off and the seat removed to try to get better airflow. (ridding on a piece of plywood on the drivers side is not a very fun ride FYI. But it's for science) it did seem to help but wasn't as hot of a day.

Today is going to be 92 degrees here and I have more weed spraying to do. (3mph for a couple of hours) I'm sure it'll happen again and then I can keep trying different things. I guess it's probably time to start throwing parts at it. It just doesn't seem like we have it narrowed down to one particular thing.

Thanks for everyone's hard work and effort documenting everything you've tried. I'm pretty sure we'll get it eventually.

I don't know what to tell you. I did my ECM and it still came back eventually. I did go out this weekend and get about 40 miles, and at one point the cab temps did get up to around 100°, and I had no issues. But that's hardly enough to say this is fixed.

If I were starting over from scratch, I think I would do the extra ground thing first.

 

[Trevorblank46]

Little update. Last night I took grounds off again and made sure I had dielectric grease between each eylet of all the grounds and re tightened them. Today I sprayed for over 2 hours, never shutting the machine off, putting around at about 3 mph. The fan kept kicking on several times and had no problems. (normally I'd only get about an hour and then would have to let it completely cool). So I decided to go for a rip out in the back of my property and run it pretty hard to try to get it to recreate the issue. Ran just fine. I then let it idle for about 10 min (which usually seems to be the issue after it's pretty hot) and it still drove around like it should without shutting off. Now in addition the messing with the grounds, I did wiggle a bunch of wires, and pushed in on all of the connectors into the pcm. So I can't say grounds were the only thing I've touched. But when it's shutting off every 15 feet I've wiggled every wire and connector and it never helped. So who knows.

Also just for complete information, we're all pretty sure this is some sort of electrical issue. So just to be clear, I am running a 25 gallon weed sprayer in the bed that is hooked up directly to the battery with alligator clamps. Yesterday that was my same set up and had issues after about an hour. Today, same set up no issues. Just want to make sure we all have the facts for diagnosis.

The reason I mention that, is the pump was on constant and the fan kept kicking on several times. So I imagine between the two of them there is a pretty good draw on the battery. Especially after an hour or more. And at low speeds/rpms I imagine it isn't charging very fast. However no problems restarting once the issue occurs, so there's clearly enough power the start. But like I said, no issues today.

 

[Trevorblank46]

I don't know what to tell you. I did my ECM and it still came back eventually. I did go out this weekend and get about 40 miles, and at one point the cab temps did get up to around 100°, and I had no issues. But that's hardly enough to say this is fixed.

If I were starting over from scratch, I think I would do the extra ground thing first.

If it happens again, that'll be my first move! Thanks for all your detailed info! You guys have been very helpful. I don't even want to waste my time taking it in to get fixed. They clearly don't know what to do.

 

[Flyingzook]

Hi all from Australia. I have a 2019 700 with around 8000km with this same issue of the whole Christmas tree dash, rolling to a stop and dying if left in gear or it would keep running if knocked into neutral. It had happened before and we took it to our local dealer and I believe they swapped the wiring harness. It came good for a while (maybe 2000km) but has recently started doing it again very often. We run a cattle property so it spends a lot of time going slowly in grass and the weather can get bloody hot here so we thought it was the heat caused by all the grass seed around the motor (the radiator has a screen in front of it to stop seed getting into it). We carried a blower to try and keep it clean which helped a little bit. Upon further investigation we have found our issue must be gear/shifting related. If it dies on us we can put it into manual mode and smash around as long as we want and as fast as first will let you go without shifting up (approx 20km/h). The minute it changes into second it dies pretty much immediately. Whilst trying to get home and absolutely ringing the tits off this thing at 20km/h in first gear the engine stays on 2 heat bars so the engine cooling system is working correctly. The issue with sending it to the dealer is they will just start it and boost up and down the street then letting it idle for a few hours which won’t prove anything. Our dealer is very good but it’s hard to replicate unless you drive it for an hour or two. And it’s a pain in the a** to take it all the way to town. I am an electrician by trade so I will probably have a crack at testing the electrical system but i feel it might be something to do with the clutching system. Just wondering if anyone else has tried the gear trick? Sorry for the long post but hopefully it can help guide the brains trust here we can solve this issue. It’s bloody annoying that these “super reliable” Hondas are giving us such grief… thanks

 

[Slackjaw]

Super tag.
I never tried it in manual mode.
Definitely adding that to the list.
THANKS!!!