Engine cuts out at 12 MPH

Vikes79

Vikes79

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The voltage with the engine off is 12.45 and at idle it is 14.30. Is it possible that it has too many volts?

I videoed the blinks and slowed them down so I could accurately count them. There are 35 blinks. I'm confused since the manual page for trouble codes has an option of 32 blinks and 41 blinks, but not 35. Attached is a file with the Drivetrain DTC Index page. What is wrong with my thinking?
Have you tried changing the battery, or driving around with a jump pack attached?

As mentioned before, just cause it starts doesn’t mean it has enough remaining amps to operate shifter, PS etc. seen this before on pioneers. Load testing the battery or using a jump pack as a secondary battery is a way to rule out a weak battery. Voltage is only 1/2 the story, reserve amps is the other side. You can have a battery read good voltage, but still be bad on reserve amps.
 
Hondasxs

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I have no idea about the battery other than it seems to start the SXS well. I just bought the SXS a few months ago.

Today I tested the Gear Position Switch and connectors. It is supposed to have continuity when testing each gear position (Drive, Neutral and Reverse). It had none no matter what position, so I ordered a new switch. It should be in Tuesday. Stay tuned.

I also used my home computer to slow down and count the blinks. It has 35 rapid blinks, which does not match anything in the service manual. If it had 41 it would be telling us to check out the Gear Position Switch.
If your still referring to the seat belt blinks....
I don't think that is relevant. Every model that doesn't have the seatbelt sensor blinks X# of times and stops by default.

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DG Rider

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The side-by-side sat in a Honda shop for the past 4 months. They say that there are no error codes and that the side-by-side is trying to shift from 1 gear to reverse at 12 mph.

Got any ideas?
1st and reverse use the same clutch. The reverse of power flow is in the subtranny.
 
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Mudwisel

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The side-by-side sat in a Honda shop for the past 4 months. They say that there are no error codes and that the side-by-side is trying to shift from 1 gear to reverse at 12 mph.

Got any ideas?
If you only have auto that sensor on the diff is used to control shifting. unplugging it I would think it would not shift out of first
 
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brad bevins

brad bevins

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Before taking it to the shop, I disconnected the sensor on the diff. I then drove it down the street and measured the speed with a gps phone app. It stayed in only one gear (probably 1st) and it went 19 miles an hour without the violent shutdown that it does with the speedometer wires plugged in.

I believe the P, R, N and front diff lock lights work correctly.

There is one more thing. I replaced the rear diff as soon as I purchased the SXS. It was not running when I purchased it so I don't really know if changing the diff has anything to do with its current condition.
 
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DG Rider

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Before taking it to the shop, I disconnected the sensor on the diff. I then drove it down the street and measured the speed with a gps phone app. It stayed in only one gear (probably 1st) and it went 19 miles an hour without the violent shutdown that it does with the speedometer wires plugged in.

I believe the P, R, N and front diff lock lights work correctly.

There is one more thing. I replaced the rear diff as soon as I purchased the SXS. It was not running when I purchased it so I don't really know if changing the diff has anything to do with its current condition.
Was this machine beat up when you got it?

Can you put up a video of what it's doing?

Does this seem like a rev/speed limiter, or is the machine just bogging...like if you had hit the brakes? Is the engine winding out when this happens, or at a relatively low RPM?

The D, N, and R indicator all match the dash markings?

I'm trying to think of rev/speed limiters present on the 700. I believe there's one in reverse, but I don't know what speed that is. There's also one present if you use the start-in-gear feature, But that one is literally just off idle. Don't know if you could even get 12mph out of that.

I don't think there's one for diff lock or the parking brake being on. And of course there's a seatbelt that's always been mentioned 50 times, but doesn't apply to your machine.

If you do a little searching online you can find a service manual online in PDF form. It's available here for paid members, or @BobRack might get you one as well. I don't know if it's even feasible or possible that the connectors and/or solenoids for the valve body on the tranny somehow got reversed. The emergency valve you screwed locks the machine second gear and bypasses all electronic controls.

Again, a little video clip of what it's doing would be very helpful?
 
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DG Rider

DG Rider

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Coincidentally, curiosity got the best of me, so it took the machine out for a wash today, and as I suspected, the rev limiter for reverse is at exactly 12 mph. Hmmm...
 
brad bevins

brad bevins

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I will try to answer the above questions.

Yes the machine was beaten up. It was missing about $1000 of parts and I could not test drive it because the rear diff was disconnected. Half of the $1000 was a new rear diff.

I can;t get a video since the machine is at a Honda shop and has been there for a few months.

Its not bogging, its really feels like a pretty violent shutdown.

I believe the D, N, R indicators are working correctly.

I have a pdf Service Manual but its all about trouble codes (and in this case there aren't any codes). I searched for "limiter" and it only finds Alternator Torque Limiter. Is there a part name or number that you can directed me to?

Thank you
 
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ToddACimer

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The ECU has an HL3-A42 part number on it.

What can we learn from that?
It's possible that part number ECU was used on more than just the 15 model and the inventory is screwed up. I would check your PCM for a blue wire about half way across the PCM inputs, it's likely missing. I can't read the schematic that @Hondasxs has in the club resources as the quality of page 615 is too blurry to decipher the pins. In order to bypass the newer speed limiter on an older machine, the blue wire position would need to be connected to ground. If someone had a paper copy of the 2016 or 2017 schematic they could tell us the pin number.

Screenshot 2024 04 14 082234
 
DG Rider

DG Rider

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It's possible that part number ECU was used on more than just the 15 model and the inventory is screwed up. I would check your PCM for a blue wire about half way across the PCM inputs, it's likely missing. I can't read the schematic that @Hondasxs has in the club resources as the quality of page 615 is too blurry to decipher the pins. In order to bypass the newer speed limiter on an older machine, the blue wire position would need to be connected to ground. If someone had a paper copy of the 2016 or 2017 schematic they could tell us the pin number.

View attachment 425366
I had considered it being miss-labeled. Seems unlikely...but ANYTHING is possible with the workforce out there these days.

17 and up...

Connector A, pin 15.

Screenshot 20240414 104617 Drive


Screenshot 20240414 104954 Drive
 
ToddACimer

ToddACimer

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I had considered it being miss-labeled. Seems unlikely...but ANYTHING is possible with the workforce out there these days.

17 and up...

Connector A, pin 15.

View attachment 425396

View attachment 425397
That's the info we needed. His harness connector will have a plug in it for that pin. If this is the issue.

It would be interesting to know the 5 digit number before the HL3-A42
 
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DG Rider

DG Rider

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@brad bevins, if it's really a "violent shutdown" as opposed to the sputtering of the rev limiter, maybe the shop is onto something with the whole shifting into reverse thing?

I mean...it's NOT shifting into reverse from 1st because those two use the same clutch, but maybe the first gear clutch isn't releasing when 2nd is being applied (this is called "cross shifting" in the auto trans world)? That would cause some huge binding?

What might be helpful: find a copy of the Rincon service manual. Same engine/tranny (albeit, with lower gearing in the subtranny), but the Rincon FSM has trans hydraulic powerflow and solenoid application charts that were omitted from the P700's manual for some reason.
 
DG Rider

DG Rider

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That's the info we needed. His harness connector will have a plug in it for that pin. If this is the issue.

It would be interesting to know the 5 digit number before the HL3-A42
Actually, the plug will likely have a blank rubber block off and no wire if his harness is '16 or older.

The control unit may or may not have a pin there even if it's not used. I've seen them either way In cars.
 
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brad bevins

brad bevins

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I took the two colored schematics and replies to the Honda shop and told them they could easily eliminate the theory that its related to the seat belt wiring by grounding pin A 15. The manager agreed and said he would talk to the mechanic. He then said there were 3 other service orders in front of mine (even though mine has been in his shop for months). He said to check back in a week.
 
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