Dual battery questions

[X50]

Yeah it's called a sub harness for factory warn winch. It's a mess. Worst case I'll take it to the dealer and say remove all that crap. I want them to remove the factory switch pannel harness kit for the dash aswell I want basic 2 battery. A positive and a negative and I'll wire my aftermarket accessories Just as that, aftermarket. I don't see why they had to be fancy and plug and play all over the harness. Especially when they designed a system that can't even run its own accessories and the trans and ecu all at once withought a second battery. Lol I spent 600$ today buying all the equipment I need and now I need to pay the dealer to strip the machiene to remove their fancy wiring junk lol... Definitely a little annoyed today with this machiene

Swapping the factory winch from the main battery to the aux battery looks pretty straightforward as only two wires need to be changed.

The winch gets its power from being connected to the starter relay battery post; simply remove it from there and relocate it to the positive of the aux battery. If the original wire isn't long enough, just make a new one.

[I don't know if the winch positive wire is actually a fusible link providing short circuit protection or not. Likewise, I don't know if the wire from the main battery to the starter relay is a fusible link or just a plain wire. You could always insert a breaker between the aux battery and the winch power wire or make the connection using fusible link if you're really concerned.]

The second wire/connection that needs to be dealt with is the winch ground connection. The factory install uses a cable that is preinstalled on all 1000's. The easiest solution is to run a ground wire from the battery negative terminal to the ground post on the winch contactor unit. If you leave the factory ground wire on that terminal, it'll tie your aux battery to the frame ground. If you're putting in a secondary fuse panel for the aux battery, run a ground directly to it from the aux battery as well (presuming it has a negative bus bar for the connected accessories.

A purist might say it's better to wire the aux battery directly to the frame and directly to the winch, but the only really high current item most aux batteries will power is the winch.

From the install directions, the winch "sub-harness" is merely for connecting the remote controller- no need to mess with it when installing an aux battery.

Page 14 and 15 of the install instructions show the positive and negative power connections for the winch contactor: Honda Winch Install Instructions

Here's the install instructions for the Honda switch plate: Honda Switch Plate Installation Instructions

Page 4 shows a wire-tap connector is used to obtain power from the 15A accessory fuse (key on power). No reason to alter it.

Page 5 shows the switch panel power harness is obtaining its primary power for the accessories from the starter relay, just as the winch. Relocate it to the aux battery and anything connected to it will run off of the aux battery.

Page 6 shows the negative wire is connected to the primary battery ground. Move it to the aux battery ground.

 

[Admin]

 

[Scoop]

Ground is ground (for YOUR application). IMHO, there is no significant benefit achieved by moving the ground wire to the AUX battery ground. The only thing that really matters is moving the main 12V feed to the AUX battery.

 

[Hondasxs]

Ground is ground.

Incorrect.. You need to study the power path and determine the proper path back to the source.
Also, FYI, there are many false grounds on these machines.

there is no significant benefit achieved by moving the ground wire to the AUX battery ground.

There is lots really. You want the power flow to be isolated to the second battery ONLY.
Lets say you use the factory "blue tape" wire as the winch ground. You are now passing current through the entire system, primary battery, back to the secondary battery.

Whereas if you have it direct to the second battery, Both positive and negative, then you are ONLY pulling and passing current from that ONE battery.

I have been wanting to spend some time and make a post on power loops.
Using Buss bars, and the factory ground as the winch ground, and other incorrect power loops could be why so many people have issue (repeated issues) with their batteries.

I recommend winch DIRECT to the second battery for a proper isolated power draw.

BUT.
For a single battery system, It is better to pass ground through the frame using the "blue tape" wire so you an include the stator in the loop thus slightly helping.

 

[Hondasxs]

Whereas if you have it direct to the second battery, Both positive and negative then you are ONLY pulling and passing current from that ONE battery.

Its actually a catch 22 situation.

For best performance of the winch, you would want the positive to the second battery and the ground to the primary
This would double the amp's available and make your winch stronger.
But that breaks the concept of having a isolated system to begin with.

 

[X50]

Its actually a catch 22 situation.

For best performance of the winch, you would want the positive to the second battery and the ground to the primary
This would double the amp's available and make your winch stronger.
But that breaks the concept of having a isolated system to begin with.

I'm not sure that's accurate. You only have one path to the main battery- the negative. There is no path to the positive of the main battery. Presuming you aren't just running the two batteries directly paralleled, the only complete circuit the winch sees is the aux battery.

The point in your previous post about multiple "grounds" being problematic is spot on. Corrosion or a loose connection may not be problems with the install initially, but over time you can wind up having grounds that are at different levels to each other.

 

[Hondasxs]

I'm not sure that's accurate. You only have one path to the main battery- the negative. There is no path to the positive of the main battery. Presuming you aren't just running the two batteries directly paralleled, the only complete circuit the winch sees is the aux battery.

Disregarding all the extra wiring stuff.
A parallel system connected like this would be best for higher amp rating and a stronger winch pull.
The below is the same concept as the "blue light" being on. A paralle system.
But like I said, that dilutes the reason most want a dual battery system.

 

[Hondasxs]

I'm not expert. I am self taught.
I have learned so much about 12v in the past 2 years.

 

[Scoop]

Incorrect.. You need to study the power path and determine the proper path back to the source.
Also, FYI, there are many false grounds on these machines.

There is lots really. You want the power flow to be isolated to the second battery ONLY.
Lets say you use the factory "blue tape" wire as the winch ground. You are now passing current through the entire system, primary battery, back to the secondary battery.

Whereas if you have it direct to the second battery, Both positive and negative, then you are ONLY pulling and passing current from that ONE battery.

I have been wanting to spend some time and make a post on power loops.
Using Buss bars, and the factory ground as the winch ground, and other incorrect power loops could be why so many people have issue (repeated issues) with their batteries.

I recommend winch DIRECT to the second battery for a proper isolated power draw.

BUT.
For a single battery system, It is better to pass ground through the frame using the "blue tape" wire so you an include the stator in the loop thus slightly helping.

My ground for the main battery is the OEM harness.

My ground for the AUX battery is ... the other OEM harness.

Are you telling me that frame is split in two and neither ground come together?

 

[Hondasxs]

My ground for the main battery is the OEM harness.
My ground for the AUX battery is ... the other OEM harness.
Are you telling me that frame is split in two and neither ground come together?

No.
I was referring to the statement that a "ground is a ground".

Where is your winch grounding?

 

[Scoop]

No.
I was referring to the statement that a "ground is a ground".

Where is your winch ground?

I was referring to ground is ground for HIS setup and not really needing to move his winch ground from where it is to the AUX battery negative. For HIS application, it didnt seem like it would make much difference.

I my winch is ground to a negative bus bar, but I don't recall if i wired it from the negative terminal on the 1st or 2nd battery.

 

[Scoop]

I'm 99% sure my winch is connected exactly as your diagram: positive on the AUX battery positive post and negative on a bus bar from the main battery negative.

 

[Hondasxs]

I'm 99% sure my winch is connected exactly as your diagram.

My diagram?.... Can you point me to view it. please.
Sorry. I have so much stuff on here. lol..

 

[Scoop]

My diagram?.... Can you point me to view it. please.
Sorry. I have so much stuff on here. lol..

I meant Post #26 above.

 

[Hondasxs]

needing to move his winch ground from where it is to the AUX battery

I disagree and think it should be moved.
I think both positive and negative should be direct to the second battery to prevent current flow through the primary battery.
After supper, I'll make a example. maybe start a new post as I been wanting to talk about this theory.

 

[Scoop]

I disagree and think it should be moved.
I think both positive and negative should be direct to the second battery to prevent current flow through the primary battery.
After supper, I'll make a example. maybe start a new post as I been wanting to talk about this theory.

Ok. Thx.

 

[Scoop]

Actually, my negative bus bar does go back to my AUX battery, so ... winch positive and negative to AUX only.

(Earlier pic but winch is still the same)

 

[X50]

Here's a good article talking about "isolators" and "separators" that makes the discussion clearer. The True "isolator" is technically a "separator". A classic isolator is a diode device where the charging current (alternator output) connects to the isolator and the isolator connects to each battery. In a separator system (like the True) the alternator remains connected to the primary battery and the separator bridges the two batteries together when the voltage of one side exceeds the trigger point. [That's why True told someone who posted it in another thread that it doesn't matter which side the main battery is hooked to.]

IOW, if you're running the True or something similar, after the primary battery reaches the trigger voltage the two battery positives are connected together via the True. At that point, any device, regardless of which battery it is connected to, has a total current available to it of the main battery + the aux battery + the alternator - any other loads.

The primary purpose of a separator isn't to create two unique 12v systems being charged by one alternator (that's the job of an actual isolator). The primary purpose of a separator is to prevent loads connected to the aux battery from draining the main (starting) battery and to prevent the internal resistance of the two batteries from draining each other.

 

[X50]

I'm not expert. I am self taught.
I have learned so much about 12v in the past 2 years.

I've been dealing with DC, AC, RF, grounding, and audio, personally and professionally, for 40+ years and am still continually learning.

DC is generally the easiest to understand of them, but best practices tend to be more complex than theory since bp takes into account actual real world conditions such as corrosion and loosening connections.

 

[Yotebuster]

Swapping the factory winch from the main battery to the aux battery looks pretty straightforward as only two wires need to be changed.

The winch gets its power from being connected to the starter relay battery post; simply remove it from there and relocate it to the positive of the aux battery. If the original wire isn't long enough, just make a new one.

[I don't know if the winch positive wire is actually a fusible link providing short circuit protection or not. Likewise, I don't know if the wire from the main battery to the starter relay is a fusible link or just a plain wire. You could always insert a breaker between the aux battery and the winch power wire or make the connection using fusible link if you're really concerned.]

The second wire/connection that needs to be dealt with is the winch ground connection. The factory install uses a cable that is preinstalled on all 1000's. The easiest solution is to run a ground wire from the battery negative terminal to the ground post on the winch contactor unit. If you leave the factory ground wire on that terminal, it'll tie your aux battery to the frame ground. If you're putting in a secondary fuse panel for the aux battery, run a ground directly to it from the aux battery as well (presuming it has a negative bus bar for the connected accessories.

A purist might say it's better to wire the aux battery directly to the frame and directly to the winch, but the only really high current item most aux batteries will power is the winch.

From the install directions, the winch "sub-harness" is merely for connecting the remote controller- no need to mess with it when installing an aux battery.

Page 14 and 15 of the install instructions show the positive and negative power connections for the winch contactor: Honda Winch Install Instructions

Here's the install instructions for the Honda switch plate: Honda Switch Plate Installation Instructions

Page 4 shows a wire-tap connector is used to obtain power from the 15A accessory fuse (key on power). No reason to alter it.

Page 5 shows the switch panel power harness is obtaining its primary power for the accessories from the starter relay, just as the winch. Relocate it to the aux battery and anything connected to it will run off of the aux battery.

Page 6 shows the negative wire is connected to the primary battery ground. Move it to the aux battery ground.

this was a lot of help thanks for posting One thing I don’t understand is if you undo the negative for the winch from the factory installed negative cable which is the cable that has blue tape on it on most models that is sitting there unused except for the limited edition special edition models have the pre-installed factory winch don’t you run that factory installed negative cable over to the second battery then for its negative connection so then you just run negative from the second battery to the winch contactor so they’re actually both still on the same negative line at that point same frame negative grounding point am I correct don’t want to wire it wrong

 

[X50]

this was a lot of help thanks for posting One thing I don’t understand is if you undo the negative for the winch from the factory installed negative cable which is the cable that has blue tape on it on most models that is sitting there unused except for the limited edition special edition models have the pre-installed factory winch don’t you run that factory installed negative cable over to the second battery then for its negative connection so then you just run negative from the second battery to the winch contactor so they’re actually both still on the same negative line at that point same frame negative grounding point am I correct don’t want to wire it wrong

If the factory winch negative cable will reach to your aux battery, then you can connect it there and then run a same size (or larger) wire from the aux battery ground to the winch contactor ground. If not, connect it to the winch negative contactor post and run run a same size wire to the aux negative post.

Either way, you'll need to run a wire between the aux battery and the ground post of the winch contactor. I'd prefer running the factory winch ground connection to the aux battery as that means one less connection that could become loose. (If run to the winch contactor, that connection or the one on the battery could become loose)