2019 Talon 1000X Suspension issue

[fartsalot]

Just got it back from the dealer today, after its third visit in three weeks... The very reason I bought it is reliability, and my RZR was in the shop 3 times in 3 years, the Talon is 3 times in THREE WEEKS...

its really too bad. I love the way it looks, the fit and finish is awesome, the dct is cutting edge for a side by side and works great, the engine is phenomenal, but they just screwed the suspension up so bad.

Shop visit 1: drivers side rear shock blown and leaking, had 0 nitrogen charge as it rolled off showroom floor
shop visit 2: sub transmission was very low on fluid from factory
Shop visit 3: rear tender springs are collapsed, Honda says they’re “normal”. Ya I know, this probably is normal, but I guess it's more my frustration with how terrible the suspension is that i'm hoping a part is broken and can be fixed.

EDIT: I wanted to expand on this a bit, I hate bashing the machine, it just drives me nuts that I spent a lot of friggin money on a machine and the way to get suspension performance i'm used to is about a $3000 set of Elka shocks. Just to be similar to the old rzr I had. Crazy to me a company like Honda that has been building cars for so long can get it so wrong.

Sure the display sucks, but I don't care... Headlights are amazing, cage is well designed and comes with a roof, seats are great, storage is good, design is phenomenal, wheels and tires are very good from factory, I'm in love wit the 1000 twin/DCT combo so much more than the 1000/rubber band tranny of the rzr, that thing felt so boring and the Talon feels so alive. I guess it boils down to they did such a good job in so many ways... BUT...

They have access to suspension geometry machines, testing machines, engineers, R+ D facilities, etc etc etc, that Polaris/Can am/Kawasaki/etc drool over using, they get the rest of the car so, so right, yet they manage to F*** up probably the most important part of a sport side by side. The suspension.

Anyway, I'm going to replenish the fun budget after the cost of the talon, and buy some elka's I guess.

Oh and the bumper and winch went on today, i'll post some pics!

I put stage 4 Elkas on my X and it was a nice improvement,,,,but,,,there is only so much even Elka's can do to improve the x geometry due to the center of gravity and trailing arm length on the X.

 

[Admin]

 

[Hometeam]

If the suspension is basically your only complaint then stop complaining and spend the $1,200 on springs and revalving and be done....it fixes the rough ride and you get it set up to how you want it. That is not a lot of money to get the suspension how you want it. There are so many things that the other machines need that cost money that you wouldn't want to have to spend on them either. KRX is so slow it can't move fast enough to need good suspension....it is a pig and has its problems starting to surface too. Seen quit a few videos of belts getting smoked on them too. The KRX is so heavy it struggles to do what it was made to do. I would take a transmission that I can shift, that I have to spend a little bit of money on the suspension than a belt that I can't fix. The KRX is not the answer unless you are taking your grandma on ride with you!

 

[Killer223]

If you look at the shocks and the bottom 2" of the shaft isn't being used, your shocks are in bottom out control. they get VERY stiff the last few inches. to SOFTEN the ride RAISE the ride height. i've done this to multiple cars and it's helped every single one. the stock springs sag, and put the shock into bottom out control mode. rising the ride height takes that away and gives you more travel before the ride becomes harsh.
the other option is to open the shocks up and drill a bleed hole to bleed off the last few inches of travel. that's one of the mods ST does.

 

[Smitty335]

If you look at the shocks and the bottom 2" of the shaft isn't being used, your shocks are in bottom out control. they get VERY stiff the last few inches. to SOFTEN the ride RAISE the ride height. i've done this to multiple cars and it's helped every single one. the stock springs sag, and put the shock into bottom out control mode. rising the ride height takes that away and gives you more travel before the ride becomes harsh.
the other option is to open the shocks up and drill a bleed hole to bleed off the last few inches of travel. that's one of the mods ST does.

???????

 

[1HasBeen]

No off the shelf, out of the box shock setup is going to give you the results you are looking for. They will need tuned anyway, and Elkas are prone to be leakers, from my experience in the industry. Re-work what you have, or wait for other tuned options. Ed Niemela AKA Pound Sand, AKA The Suspension Guy will be working on a setup for the OEM Foxes, and may even offer Kings at some point. Weller Racing, MTS Off Road, and ST are also still out there.

 

[McCarthy]

You know, I almost wonder if the machine just isn't well suited to northern canadian terrain? I did a 50 mile ride Saturday in an alpine area that mimics desert terrain fairly closely, lots of high speed treeless trails, the dirt is very fine, almost like sand in most cases, and the ground is fairly soft because of it. At ~50mph or above, the Talon's suspension absorbs bumps really well, it never bottomed out, and I thought it handled big whoops pretty well at higher speeds.

I then rode Yesterday on our typical trails (Very rocky, logs, mud, everything off camber washouts) and it's back to being terrible, but rode again today in the alpine desert terrain and it was fantastic again.

 

[Smitty335]

You know, I almost wonder if the machine just isn't well suited to northern canadian terrain? I did a 50 mile ride Saturday in an alpine area that mimics desert terrain fairly closely, lots of high speed treeless trails, the dirt is very fine, almost like sand in most cases, and the ground is fairly soft because of it. At ~50mph or above, the Talon's suspension absorbs bumps really well, it never bottomed out, and I thought it handled big whoops pretty well at higher speeds.

I then rode Yesterday on our typical trails (Very rocky, logs, mud, everything off camber washouts) and it's back to being terrible, but rode again today in the alpine desert terrain and it was fantastic again.

Elka Stage 5's?

 

[TerryH]

You know, I almost wonder if the machine just isn't well suited to northern canadian terrain? I did a 50 mile ride Saturday in an alpine area that mimics desert terrain fairly closely, lots of high speed treeless trails, the dirt is very fine, almost like sand in most cases, and the ground is fairly soft because of it. At ~50mph or above, the Talon's suspension absorbs bumps really well, it never bottomed out, and I thought it handled big whoops pretty well at higher speeds.

I then rode Yesterday on our typical trails (Very rocky, logs, mud, everything off camber washouts) and it's back to being terrible, but rode again today in the alpine desert terrain and it was fantastic again.

And there you have the deal. Exactly what Ted at Bandit told me when I first contacted him. If you are in terrain you can drive wide open all the time you are in the zone that they are tuned for and they work perfectly. If you trail ride, they are a log wagon and you gotta soften them up or you will be very disappointed.

 

[McCarthy]

And there you have the deal. Exactly what Ted at Bandit told me when I first contacted him. If you are in terrain you can drive wide open all the time you are in the zone that they are tuned for and they work perfectly. If you trail ride, they are a log wagon and you gotta soften them up or you will be very disappointed.

It's very true, the machine would be so good in the desert southwest. It puzzles me though, one would think the X would be much softer and more of a trail rig than the R, where the R seems like it has a softer suspension more suited to trails. Interesting.

 

[TerryH]

It's very true, the machine would be so good in the desert southwest. It puzzles me though, one would think the X would be much softer and more of a trail rig than the R, where the R seems like it has a softer suspension more suited to trails. Interesting.

Completely agree but I go back to conversations that I've had with Ted that make more and more sense. They test in the desert. They set up everything to go fast and leave the rest up to the buyer. They've totally missed the mark for a huge percentage of buyers but apparently sell them as fast as they can make them so hard to justify doing anything different I suppose.

 

[906UP]

Completely agree but I go back to conversations that I've had with Ted that make more and more sense. They test in the desert. They set up everything to go fast and leave the rest up to the buyer. They've totally missed the mark for a huge percentage of buyers but apparently sell them as fast as they can make them so hard to justify doing anything different I suppose.

This x100

 

[906UP]

The Bandit springs full kit, not just tenders made a big improvement. I imagine the terain here in the Eastern U.P. is similar to what your riding @McCarthy

 

[Fyathyrio]

You know, I almost wonder if the machine just isn't well suited to northern canadian terrain? I did a 50 mile ride Saturday in an alpine area that mimics desert terrain fairly closely, lots of high speed treeless trails, the dirt is very fine, almost like sand in most cases, and the ground is fairly soft because of it. At ~50mph or above, the Talon's suspension absorbs bumps really well, it never bottomed out, and I thought it handled big whoops pretty well at higher speeds.

I then rode Yesterday on our typical trails (Very rocky, logs, mud, everything off camber washouts) and it's back to being terrible, but rode again today in the alpine desert terrain and it was fantastic again.

Your description of the X and the trails pretty much matches my experience with the R on the same type trails. When I'm blasting along leaving a rooster tail of dust 1/4mile behind me, I rarely think about the suspension. When I hit the volcanic flows that require slow speed, it's horrible.

 

[lee]

I bet this is the issue I’ve been having with my p500. If I could get it to go faster the ride will be better? I’ll give this a try.

 

[JTW]

I bet this is the issue I’ve been having with my p500. If I could get it to go faster the ride will be better? I’ll give this a try.

I have a sure fire way we can test this... we just need a bubba rope, a Cummins truck and you in the P500!!

 

[ohanacreek]

If the suspension is basically your only complaint then stop complaining and spend the $1,200 on springs and revalving and be done....it fixes the rough ride and you get it set up to how you want it. That is not a lot of money to get the suspension how you want it. There are so many things that the other machines need that cost money that you wouldn't want to have to spend on them either. KRX is so slow it can't move fast enough to need good suspension....it is a pig and has its problems starting to surface too. Seen quit a few videos of belts getting smoked on them too. The KRX is so heavy it struggles to do what it was made to do. I would take a transmission that I can shift, that I have to spend a little bit of money on the suspension than a belt that I can't fix. The KRX is not the answer unless you are taking your grandma on ride with you!

I’m going to disagree on the KRX being slow and heavy.

If you beef up a talon to where a KRX is on showroom and put 31’s on it, it it probably the same weight if not heavier, and it will most definitely be slower because there’s no IGR for it YET even then you’d still need the IGR to have any low end power. Either way if you are wanting a Talon to be as beefy and low geared as the KRX is for very rough rocky trails you’ll be spending 50% of the cost of the talon to replace parts. You still will be nowhere near as low geared


BUT

The Talon R was designed for the desert masses and the X was designed for the masses for great general trail use. The suspension is vastly different between the two and Shock Therapy isn’t the Albert Einstein of suspension either.

Look at almost everything Honda makes, it’s designed for the masses not the niche users, as a niche user I get that and accept it.

The KRX is designed more to be abused on east coast rocky trails than the X is.

For an analogy you are comparing a stadium truck to a rock crawler. Similar HP and travel but two different uses. Some try to compare a Pioneer to a sport machine and get upset because it’s clearly not one.

It wholly depends on what terrain you are riding, buy (or build) the machine you need/want. To do that you can’t alway buy the one that looks the coolest or has the brand you prefer. I had to steal @snuffnwhisky time, ideas, tools, and brain child, to get what I wanted/needed. No one makes a 5seat short wheelbase farm rig with 15” of travel on 32’s, it’s a very niche market for those.

I don’t have the garage space or the extra $30k for a second purpose built machine. I “needed” something that can work around our acreage, or take difficult rocky trails carrying camping gear for several days, or carry the whole family on trails.

All that said buy/build what suits you.

 

[CID]

I’m going to disagree on the KRX being slow and heavy.

If you beef up a talon to where a KRX is on showroom and put 31’s on it, it it probably the same weight if not heavier, and it will most definitely be slower because there’s no IGR for it YET even then you’d still need the IGR to have any low end power. Either way if you are wanting a Talon to be as beefy and low geared as the KRX is for very rough rocky trails you’ll be spending 50% of the cost of the talon to replace parts. You still will be nowhere near as low geared


BUT

The Talon R was designed for the desert masses and the X was designed for the masses for great general trail use. The suspension is vastly different between the two and Shock Therapy isn’t the Albert Einstein of suspension either.

Look at almost everything Honda makes, it’s designed for the masses not the niche users, as a niche user I get that and accept it.

The KRX is designed more to be abused on east coast rocky trails than the X is.

For an analogy you are comparing a stadium truck to a rock crawler. Similar HP and travel but two different uses. Some try to compare a Pioneer to a sport machine and get upset because it’s clearly not one.

It wholly depends on what terrain you are riding, buy (or build) the machine you need/want. To do that you can’t alway buy the one that looks the coolest or has the brand you prefer. I had to steal @snuffnwhisky time, ideas, tools, and brain child, to get what I wanted/needed. No one makes a 5seat short wheelbase farm rig with 15” of travel on 32’s, it’s a very niche market for those.

I don’t have the garage space or the extra $30k for a second purpose built machine. I “needed” something that can work around our acreage, or take difficult rocky trails carrying camping gear for several days, or carry the whole family on trails.

All that said buy/build what suits you.

Nailed it, nothing to add. 👍

 

[Montecresto]

I bet this is the issue I’ve been having with my p500. If I could get it to go faster the ride will be better? I’ll give this a try.

It’s true, I tried it once just racing on a wide but technical trail and (without power steering at least) it was pretty scary.

Much more fun in the stability of the Talon....🤣👍

 

[Hometeam]

I’m going to disagree on the KRX being slow and heavy.

If you beef up a talon to where a KRX is on showroom and put 31’s on it, it it probably the same weight if not heavier, and it will most definitely be slower because there’s no IGR for it YET even then you’d still need the IGR to have any low end power. Either way if you are wanting a Talon to be as beefy and low geared as the KRX is for very rough rocky trails you’ll be spending 50% of the cost of the talon to replace parts. You still will be nowhere near as low geared


BUT

The Talon R was designed for the desert masses and the X was designed for the masses for great general trail use. The suspension is vastly different between the two and Shock Therapy isn’t the Albert Einstein of suspension either.

Look at almost everything Honda makes, it’s designed for the masses not the niche users, as a niche user I get that and accept it.

The KRX is designed more to be abused on east coast rocky trails than the X is.

For an analogy you are comparing a stadium truck to a rock crawler. Similar HP and travel but two different uses. Some try to compare a Pioneer to a sport machine and get upset because it’s clearly not one.

It wholly depends on what terrain you are riding, buy (or build) the machine you need/want. To do that you can’t one that looks the coolest or has the brand you prefer. I had to steal @snuffnwhisky time, ideas, tools, and brain child, to get what I wanted/needed. No one makes a 5seat short wheelbase farm rig with 15” of travel on 32’s, it’s a very niche market for those.

I don’t have the garage space or the extra $30k for a second purpose built machine. I “needed” something that can work around our acreage, or take difficult rocky trails carrying camping gear for several days, or carry the whole family on trails.

All that said buy/build what suits you.

They would not be the same weight..... The KRX is 160lbs heavier than the X4LV, 350lbs heavier than the R and 400lbs heavier than the X. Sorry but that is a lot of weight difference. That is 25% heavier than the X. That is not tires. Time will tell if it is actually beefier. It might have some beefier parts on it but time will tell if the KRX actually holds up and can actually handle good HP. And most reviews all say it is a heavy pig. Some say it's to heavy to really climb as good as other lighter machines. Shock Therapy actually says the Talon climbs better than the KRX. The KRX does great in Moab where a stock truck can get enough traction on those rocks so weight nor speed is an issue there. Believe me Weight is a huge factor in offroad capabilities and part breakage. I jeeped a lot before the SXS thing. I had wheeled with guys that had 1 ton axles and all the other "beefier parts" on it, but for some reason I went the same trails and never broke (and run hard) and they did break. Weight!!!!

But I will throw the towel in and agree that the KRX does better going slow than my Talon does....But I feel like that is all everyone talks about is how slow and soft the KRX can go....maybe that's all they want you focus on because it is a slow pig! 🤪 And come to think of it "Slow" was not even in my thinking when I went to go get a "Sport" SXS....it was in my thinking when I bought the Pioneer 1000....

I agree that the KRX had a different build in mind than the Talon. I'm not saying the KRX is bad....it just does not look or review like a fun machine to me....I have yet to see a KRX video that makes me want to get in the machine and rip it and pin it!!

 

[ohanacreek]

They would not be the same weight..... The KRX is 160lbs heavier than the X4LV, 350lbs heavier than the R and 400lbs heavier than the X. Sorry but that is a lot of weight difference. That is 25% heavier than the X. That is not tires. Time will tell if it is actually beefier. It might have some beefier parts on it but time will tell if the KRX actually holds up and can actually handle good HP. And most reviews all say it is a heavy pig. Some say it's to heavy to really climb as good as other lighter machines. Shock Therapy actually says the Talon climbs better than the KRX. The KRX does great in Moab where a stock truck can get enough traction on those rocks so weight nor speed is an issue there. Believe me Weight is a huge factor in offroad capabilities and part breakage. I jeeped a lot before the SXS thing. I had wheeled with guys that had 1 ton axles and all the other "beefier parts" on it, but for some reason I went the same trails and never broke (and run hard) and they did break. Weight!!!!

But I will throw the towel in and agree that the KRX does better going slow than my Talon does....But I feel like that is all everyone talks about is how slow and soft the KRX can go....maybe that's all they want you focus on because it is a slow pig! 🤪 And come to think of it "Slow" was not even in my thinking when I went to go get a "Sport" SXS....it was in my thinking when I bought the Pioneer 1000....

I agree that the KRX had a different build in mind than the Talon. I'm not saying the KRX is bad....it just does not look or review like a fun machine to me....I have yet to see a KRX video that makes me want to get in the machine and rip it and pin it!!

I have driven both, it depends on your preferred trail and use, as to how you are personally going to rate them. For me if I can't run 15mph on a trail without ripping the suspension out from under it, then why do I need a turbo or a machine geared for high speed running? Again it comes down to use, not all machines are for the same use people try to compare them and they are not designed for the same use. If you compare a monkey to a fish and judge the monkey on his ability to swim vs the fish he will lose every time. Same for the fish climbing a tree.

The parts on the KRX are in some cases 200% larger, it has steel fender wells, steel skids, steel is dense and heavy. Add all those beefed up parts to a Talon and it'll be 300lbs heavier. The A-arms I have on my machine weight 186lbs...without ball joints or the larger tiers, needed due to steering angle issues using factory style tierod ends. The 8 factory I think weighed around 30lb which is the same as one of my rear lower arms. Not a desert runner, slow and steady rock crawling. They have ½ UHMW skids on the bottom of the arms. The cheap tires on the Talon are LIGHT, the beadlocks and larger/thicker tires on the KRX are heavy. You will add 300-400lbs REALLY quick adding parts to the talon. I spent a lot of time looking at what I was going to have to do to a TalonR/Talon X4/KRX/MY Pioneer to get it to where I wanted, the weight, AND the cost to do so. Where "I" wanted was going to be $28k/$34k/$23k/@$2k for the 4 machines. The weight was going to be very similar for all except the X4 it was going to be slightly heavier. The Pioneer ended up being heavier because the design of the arms changed between when i pulled the trigger and when they got made, and cost slightly more because we were figuring out somethings as we went. .

I went into the re-build of my Pioneer 1000 trying to shed weight up high and move it down low because we play in the hills, rocks, and off camber trails.

There are several drag races showing they are dang near even acceleration wise and hill climbing. The DCT gives the Talon a short lead off the line but then the KRX holds the gap. The KRX is not the fat cow everyone on the web says it is because they can read a spec sheet. Maybe on a short course the Talon would spank the KRX because of that but most people don't seem to be buying the KRX for racing.
Numbers don't always tell the truth, numbers say the Talon shouldn't out accelerate the NA RZR but it does, numbers don't show torque numbers the Talon has torque vs HP and that gets it moving, it doesn't have the gearing to play in the rocks or thick mud, but its great on the trails and in the desert.

It depends on your definition of fun, some guys love to play in the mud like a pig, some like to play in the rocks, some like to run 100mph across the desert like their hair is on fire. In each one of those categories you have subsets of slow and fast.

I am not trying to sell you on either machine, I like people to have accurate information so THEY can make their own decision. There are several really great members on here that I never ride with simply because we like to play on different playgrounds. We ride the same machine but they are built by us for different uses.