P700m4 Want To Be Properly Shocked

[junior1954]

Hello All

After two back surgeries I'm looking for the smoothest ride I can get from my Pioneer and don't plan on going Evil Knievel. What I've felt, read and the videos I've seen on the 700's stock shocks has me shopping for replacements. I've scoured this forum and the internet and found there are 3 main shock players for my UTV-Fox, Walker Evans and Elka (looking at Stage 2's). The only consensus in the forum seems to be any of the above are worth it over stock shocks.

I think I'm going Fox 1.5 Podiums and here's why: Fox is the biggest company of the 3 by far and I believe that they can produce quality shocks cheaper than their competitors. Walker Evans offers no adjustability other than the shock's initial valving, Elka Stage 2's have adjustable rebound. Fox has adjustable low speed compression, which seems to be the most popular adjustment on off-road shocks. Since I won't be riding aggressively I'm not as concerned with bucking or stacking as I am the ability to compensate for weight changes I prefer compression over rebound adjustability. Is it just going to be the wife and me or will it be my buddy and me (both lard a$$es) and our wives in the back? Will I just be tooling around the neighborhood or trail riding? To get adjustable low speed compression from Elka you're talking $2k and Stage 3's (and 4's and 5's) which are designed for more aggressive riding.
However, Elka and I believe Walker Evans will custom valve their shocks to your weight and use.

The Fox shocks can be had for $1250., Elka Stage 2's $1275. and Walker Evans around $1200. The Fox shocks are also the only shock at this price point with a remote reservoir (check the inter web for the advantages of remote reservoirs).

If I always used my 700 the same way with the same weight the custom tuning Elka and Walker Evans offer would appeal to me. I also can't justify spending $2500. for low speed compression AND rebound adjustability, though it would be fun to play with. I believe if the weight and riding conditions change, for light to moderate use the Fox is a more versatile shock that offers more bang for the buck.

If anyone knows where I can get a better deal than $1250. for the set please let me know. I tried to contact a member of this forum that works (or worked) at a Honda Powersports dealer but was unsuccessful.

Thanks

 

[Admin]

 

[Tflynn]

Hello All

After two back surgeries I'm looking for the smoothest ride I can get from my Pioneer and don't plan on going Evil Knievel. What I've felt, read and the videos I've seen on the 700's stock shocks has me shopping for replacements. I've scoured this forum and the internet and found there are 3 main shock players for my UTV-Fox, Walker Evans and Elka (looking at Stage 2's). The only consensus in the forum seems to be any of the above are worth it over stock shocks.

I think I'm going Fox 1.5 Podiums and here's why: Fox is the biggest company of the 3 by far and I believe that they can produce quality shocks cheaper than their competitors. Walker Evans offers no adjustability other than the shock's initial valving, Elka Stage 2's have adjustable rebound. Fox has adjustable low speed compression, which seems to be the most popular adjustment on off-road shocks. Since I won't be riding aggressively I'm not as concerned with bucking or stacking as I am the ability to compensate for weight changes I prefer compression over rebound adjustability. Is it just going to be the wife and me or will it be my buddy and me (both lard a$$es) and our wives in the back? Will I just be tooling around the neighborhood or trail riding? To get adjustable low speed compression from Elka you're talking $2k and Stage 3's (and 4's and 5's) which are designed for more aggressive riding.
However, Elka and I believe Walker Evans will custom valve their shocks to your weight and use.

The Fox shocks can be had for $1250., Elka Stage 2's $1275. and Walker Evans around $1200. The Fox shocks are also the only shock at this price point with a remote reservoir (check the inter web for the advantages of remote reservoirs).

If I always used my 700 the same way with the same weight the custom tuning Elka and Walker Evans offer would appeal to me. I also can't justify spending $2500. for low speed compression AND rebound adjustability, though it would be fun to play with. I believe if the weight and riding conditions change, for light to moderate use the Fox is a more versatile shock that offers more bang for the buck.

If anyone knows where I can get a better deal than $1250. for the set please let me know. I tried to contact a member of this forum that works (or worked) at a Honda Powersports dealer but was unsuccessful.

Thanks

Thought I'd throw my thoughts in here as someone that's had Fox shocks for a few years and a few thousand miles. I wonder how happy you'll really be with New shocks because in my experience, the way aftermarket shocks really shine is during aggressive riding (big hits, jumping, etc) which you say you won't be doing. Although you may find you DO start driving that way with the new shocks installed! For example, with the stockers if ever I saw a dip in the road or something I would have to slam on the brakes to avoid bottoming out. With the Fox's I just floor it and glide on through so for me they're great because most of my riding is higher speed probably 30 mph on average. The shocks alone at a low speed don't do a huge amount of good because you are still limited by wheel travel.

But I do have a few ideas to smooth out your ride, and to be clear, I DO recommend getting shocks. Other things you will want to do are unhook your sway bar and get taller tires (NOT BIGGER WHEELS!)

Ditching the sway bar makes an incredible difference on low speed driving, plus it is 100% free and only takes a few minutes. There are many threads on this you should check out.

The taller tires will float over things better and the tall sidewalls on these new tires (because you didn't get big flashy wheels) will help soak up the little bumps. Hell an entire suspension design was based on this concept, think Honda three wheelers.

The price you're looking at seems right in the ballpark to me. So there you have it, New shocks, taller tires (27-28"), and ditching your sway will give you the smoothest ride possible from your 700. Sorry I know I just cost you more money, Good luck!

 

[Tflynn]

rear sway bar?

Good thread on sway bar removal

 

[junior1954]

Thought I'd throw my thoughts in here as someone that's had Fox shocks for a few years and a few thousand miles. I wonder how happy you'll really be with New shocks because in my experience, the way aftermarket shocks really shine is during aggressive riding (big hits, jumping, etc) which you say you won't be doing. Although you may find you DO start driving that way with the new shocks installed! For example, with the stockers if ever I saw a dip in the road or something I would have to slam on the brakes to avoid bottoming out. With the Fox's I just floor it and glide on through so for me they're great because most of my riding is higher speed probably 30 mph on average. The shocks alone at a low speed don't do a huge amount of good because you are still limited by wheel travel.

But I do have a few ideas to smooth out your ride, and to be clear, I DO recommend getting shocks. Other things you will want to do are unhook your sway bar and get taller tires (NOT BIGGER WHEELS!)

Ditching the sway bar makes an incredible difference on low speed driving, plus it is 100% free and only takes a few minutes. There are many threads on this you should check out.

The taller tires will float over things better and the tall sidewalls on these new tires (because you didn't get big flashy wheels) will help soak up the little bumps. Hell an entire suspension design was based on this concept, think Honda three wheelers.

The price you're looking at seems right in the ballpark to me. So there you have it, New shocks, taller tires (27-28"), and ditching your sway will give you the smoothest ride possible from your 700. Sorry I know I just cost you more money, Good luck!

Thanks, Tflynn. 90% of my driving is done on asphalt in our community, 10% on trails. Paraphrasing Newton, energy can't be eliminated but only redirected, resulting in motion and/or heat. Disconnecting the sway bar would redirect some compression energy to side to side motion. In a straight line at low speeds that's not a big problem, around corners in my subdivision or emergency maneuvers at higher speeds would result in more side to side lean and instability when turning, a problem. That being said it's worth a try! The feel can't be quantified only experienced.

What's your opinion on wheel spacers? They seem like they might help tame the tippyness.

I park the Honda in my garage and the roof just barely brushes the rubber weatherstrip at the top of the garage door opening so I'm limited to standard ride height. I could try to re-mount my hard roof, as I've read, to gain some room. If my mind's working right, for every 1" in tire diameter I gain 1/2" in ride height so I could go to a bigger tire. I think reducing the preload to lower ride height to compensate for larger tires would compromise suspension geometry, particularly with the Fox's mounted as it would move the shock out of it's bypass "sweet spot" and firm the ride up unnecessarily. I suppose I could play around with shock mounting points but that wouldn't be my first choice (cha-ching $). I also want to maintain adequate ground clearance. What tire pressures are you running? Are there standard size tires that ride better without compromising grip?

I didn't mean to imply that I plan on driving slowly by choice but rather that I'm limited to what I can do by pain. I want stability around corners and a softer ride over bumps. Like a downhill skier going over moguls, his legs move rapidly while his body remains stable. Seeing 4X4's blasting over hills, tires going up and down almost faster than the eye can follow, driver's compartment almost motionless- that's awesome! My goal is to not "rock the boat". Hopefully, the ability to adjust low speed compression on the Fox shocks will allow me to leave the sway bar hooked up. I need to fine-tune my 700 to better suit my needs. I think I'm going to start with the Fox shocks and then a roof re-mount and larger diameter tires. Let's face it, the Pioneer was designed to do a ton of things well creating many compromises, a big one cost. I think if money were no object oil-only mono-tube shocks would be obsolete.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Tflynn]

I would still say try unhooking the sway bar and see what you think. I was surprised by how much it didn't affect corner stability but that was my take. You'll have to see for yourself.

And also, out of the box the Fox's will lift your rig between 1 and 1.5" You can adjust it down to stock height but then you're out of the sweet spot. Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for a cage chop if you have the skills.

As for wheel spacers I'd say yes that's not a bad idea. If you're going to be taller you should be a bit wider as well.

And not to be a buzz kill, but just make sure you keep realistic expectations on what you can get out of 8" of travel. Your Pioneer will probably never ride as smooth as the high speed 4x4's you mentioned. That doesn't mean you can't vastly improve what you have and be happy with it, but you can't make it something it's not either. Remember those high speed 4x4's (if we're thinking of the same thing) have over 20" of travel! I think you realize this but I just didn't want you to spend thousands of dollars and be disappointed!

 

[Tflynn]

@swsebek chime in here

 

[swsebek]

Ok,,, you want a lot...That garage door has to be moved up... do it if you can after you see what the machine is like after your improvements....
Fox shocks and 27" tires will give you about 3 " more roof height and 12 " of clearance. If width is not a problems Spacers are always nice for stability..... I like my sway bar on for stability and keeping it feeling solid and not whipping up top....My dogs hates that.... your back will thank you.27 inch tires are perfect on 700. And you stated 90% asphalt. So you need a harder tire truck like pattern radial...Don't remove sway bar till you try it for a while.You can unhook it and zip tie it to try and decide later without takin it completely out. I unhooked mine and then rehooked it back up...The pioneer 700 is like a really cool golf cart you can off road in and haul stuff or people.

 

[junior1954]

I found the Fox installation manual on their web site. I measured from the frame rails front and rear as they instructed. Fox spec.s call for 10.75"-11.25" front-I'm at 9.75" stock. Rears Fox spec.s 11.5"-12"-I measured 11.5" stock, the low end but in spec..

Unfortunately the Honda rubs on the door frame weatherstrip, the door is up and out of the way. I still have about 1" that the weatherstrip will give (the door opening height is 7'). Since the highest point of the factory roof is in the rear I may be able to fit with the Fox shocks-I can always take the roof off if it doesn't.

I always wanted to learn how to weld but I only know how to cut. I'd really rather not chop it as I like my windshield and the cage bone's connected to the windshield bone. I do love the chopped look, though. Maybe down the road... I've seen nice roofs in this forum fabricated out of aluminum that have a form fit to the cage and still have the quick releases that might save 4".

 

[ohanacreek]

The 700 is tall, with a 2” lift and 28.5”(28x10-12) Evos I had to hang of the hitch and push up on the door while my wife backed it out of our 7’ door at our old house. I put 8’ doors on the new house so I would have extra clearance and with 28.5”(30x10-14) Evos and Fox at Factory clearance with no lift I am under 7’ with my 1000.

 

[junior1954]

The 700 is tall, with a 2” lift and 28.5”(28x10-12) Evos I had to hang of the hitch and push up on the door while my wife backed it out of our 7’ door at our old house. I put 8’ doors on the new house so I would have extra clearance and with 28.5”(30x10-14) Evos and Fox at Factory clearance with no lift I am under 7’ with my 1000.

Your 1000 is 1.6" lower than my 700-4. I don't know what the difference is if both have factory roofs but I bet the 1000 is still lower.

 

[ohanacreek]

Your 1000 is 1.6" lower than my 700-4. I don't know what the difference is if both have factory roofs but I bet the 1000 is still lower.

Not sure what your 700 is measuring my 700 was 82.25” and I had 81” to the hard part of the weather stripping on the door frame.

My 700 just before I sold it, it was an early 14’ I picked up in Sept of 2013 maybe the roof design has changed in the years since?




Here’s my 1000 as it sits, I was shocked at the height difference. My Fox were set up for factory specified ground clearance with accessories mounted and factory tires, then I put the Evos on.




All that to say, I got no clue why but I feel your pain on the garage door situation.

 

[Farmer]

... I've seen nice roofs in this forum fabricated out of aluminum that have a form fit to the cage and still have the quick releases that might save 4".

I have the EMP roof below. Not exactly a quick release type thing but a cordless impact on 5 or 6 nuts does the job pretty good.

Honda Pioneer 700 Aluminum Hard Roof Top With LED Light 2014-2017 | eBay

 

[junior1954]

Not sure what your 700 is measuring my 700 was 82.25” and I had 81” to the hard part of the weather stripping on the door frame.

My 700 just before I sold it, it was an early 14’ I picked up in Sept of 2013 maybe the roof design has changed in the years since?

View attachment 66684
View attachment 66685

Here’s my 1000 as it sits, I was shocked at the height difference. My Fox were set up for factory specified ground clearance with accessories mounted and factory tires, then I put the Evos on.

View attachment 66686
View attachment 66687

All that to say, I got no clue why but I feel your pain on the garage door situation.

I know the shocks were redesigned for either the '15 or '16 700's- maybe ride height changed? I know that the highest point is the back of the roof. If my stock height is 1" lower than Fox's recommended height and I bring them up 1" and keep the rear height the same the cantilever effect may bring the rear of the roof DOWN. I hope so-I just ordered the Fox's. Thanks for your advice!

 

[ohanacreek]

I know the shocks were redesigned for either the '15 or '16 700's- maybe ride height changed? I know that the highest point is the back of the roof. If my stock height is 1" lower than Fox's recommended height and I bring them up 1" and keep the rear height the same the cantilever effect may bring the rear of the roof DOWN. I hope so-I just ordered the Fox's. Thanks for your advice!

They changed in 15 I added the 15 shocks because they were dual rate, it helped the ride a lot but no where near a set of Fox or even a set of canam takeoffs. May get an inch out of it doing that. I thought you were getting all four for some reason.

 

[junior1954]

They changed in 15 I added the 15 shocks because they were dual rate, it helped the ride a lot but no where near a set of Fox or even a set of canam takeoffs. May get an inch out of it doing that. I thought you were getting all four for some reason.

I ordered a full set of 4. When I checked the stock ride height and compared it to Fox's recommended settings the rear was in spec, the front 1" low. Because the Fox's preload is adjustable I'll be adjusting the fronts up 1". The rear of the roof (the highest point of the UTV) should come down because of the cantilever effect over the rear axle. If it doesn't clear, I think I can gain enough clearance by re-mounting the roof. I hope.

 

[Arizona]

Getting radial tires will help soften the ride a bit as they are softer, and have softer side walls, and softer side walls flex more to help soak up bumps a bit. Most factory tires are bias ply (cheap) and stiff/rigid. On radial tires keep the PSI lower than what the manual says on PSI because those are based on bias ply which are stiffer & more rigid than radial. A 6 ply radial tire will be softest, 8 ply less soft, 10 ply more close to 2 or 4 bias ply. On my P-500 rear I have Duro Frontier Radials 6 ply, they are soft. On the front I have the new Kanati Mongrel 10 ply D.O.T. rated tires, love them, but radial 10 ply is closer to stiff bias ply than it is to softer radial 6 ply. Disconnecting the rear sway bar will soften up the rear suspension. Not sure about the P-700, but you can probably just disconnect the sway bar without having to remove it, reconnect it if for some reason you don't like it (most never reconnect it like myself) With sway bar connected, it cancels out quite a bit of the 'independent' part of IRS, with sway bar disconnected, it allows true IRS and each rear tire suspension will absorb bumps a fair amount better. I doubt some body roll on corners would bother you much, or feel less safe once you get used to not having that sway bar connected. On my P-500 it only took 2 short trail rides for me to feel completely comfortable with sway bar disconnected, much smoother ride, not feeling 'tippy' and the P-700 is 9.7" wider. Note; With radial tires being softer, on pavement they grab more than factory bias ply tires, so need to be more careful and reduce corner speeds & sharp turns on pavement.

 

[junior1954]

I agree-radials have to be better. I will definitely explore radials. Where's the best place to buy UTV tires?

 

[Arizona]

I agree-radials have to be better. I will definitely explore radials. Where's the best place to buy UTV tires?

I've bought all 14 of my of my UTV and ATV radial tires from Rocky Mountain ATV. The Kanati Mongrel radial 10 ply DOT rated tires have a tread pattern that is great for trails and pavement, plenty of traction on trails, even in sand, and smooth & quiet on pavement, very long life too.