P1000 The Good, the Bad and the Meh

[Crow_Hunter]

Well, I managed to get another 40 or so miles on it today at the farm.

I got to ride it on some very short highway drives, field roads and our woods trail. My brother and I rode several hours, took a break, went to eat at the local old style non-Buffet ruined Dairy Queen where you can still get little cheeseburgers and hot fudge cakes. Then we came back and road for a while, took another break and played a video game he had been wanting me to try out and then we went back out for a final couple of loops around.

The Good:

-I really, really, really now like the paddle shifters. Like others have said, they aren't a gimmick, they are extremely useful and fun to use. Very useful on our extremely hilly/bumpy woods trail. I originally ran through it several times in Low Auto but there was a lot of "wandering" shifting. It would up/down shift at annoying times and jerk us around so I took over and I could keep it in either 1/2/3 based on what I knew was coming up next.

-Plenty of ground clearance and engine power

-The doors were very useful since the guy that is SUPPOSED to be keeping my trails/fields mowed isn't doing his job and is only cutting the hay. In return for getting the hay for free, he is SUPPOSED to mow my trails as well. They were pretty grown up with small trees and LOTS of blackberries and briars. We would have been in shreds if we had gone through that on ATVs or even in my brother's old RZR he was very impressed with the doors and they also did a pretty good job of keeping the mud off of us on the field road

-The noise level was very low. I was expecting it to be much louder, especially in the woods but I could hear everything my motor mouth brother said and he talked the WHOLE TIME. Maybe this shouldn't be in The Good section

The Bad

-HOT, HOT, HOT. Everything on this machine is hot to the touch. The seat cushion is hot, the front of the seat is hot, the divider between back and the cushion is really hot, the dash is hot, the button to reset the trip meter is hot, the back of the seat is hot, behind the seat is hot. It isn't to the point of being unbearable, not quite to the point of being uncomfortable, but close. It is annoying though. I actually find the heat blowing through the shifter openings to be much more aggravating that the seat heat although the seat and the front of the seats did get a little warm. I don't know that adding a shield will really help that. I think blowers would likely be a bigger improvement

-Stupid shift mode on the dash stopped working reliably sometime in the middle of the 2nd run. It stopped working completely at the end of the day. I kept it in turf mode when on the highway and field road sections but shifted it to 2 wheel lock when running in the woods. After I noticed that the indicator was wrong, I started paying attention. The hotter it got, the longer it took to shift, eventually at the end of the ride, it would not indicate anything but Turf mode. I had to trailer it back home with the indicator on Turf mode because I couldn't get it to shift into 4WD lock. That is really annoying. I specifically looked at that when I picked it up and it was working perfectly fine when I loaded it on the trailer this morning.

-While the seating position itself is quite nice, the seat cushions get pretty uncomfortable after a long ride. My butt felt flat when I got out.

The Meh

-My brother liked the suspension, I didn't dislike it, it was kind of jarring on some stuff but quite comfortable on others. I would love to do a direct comparison to something else. My brother said that at lower speeds the suspension felt better than his old RZR but not quite as good at higher speeds

-The brakes seem to have gotten better but I still wish they would do a better job of stopping, I am almost at my first service interval and I am going to let the dealer do the first service and have the check them out while they have it

-While it was enjoyable to ride, I don't really feel that I got the full value for the amount I spent. I definitely should have taken my wife up on the offer to take a trip to rent both of them at Windrock before buying.

 

[Admin]

 

[DRAGFOOT]

It'll get better, be patient.

 

[CumminsPusher]

@DRAGFOOT is right! Just wait it's still new

 

[educ8tedguess]

I had an issue with the shifter on my first big ride too. My issue was a lose bolt that connects the shifter to the frame. I found this out when the bolt fell out and the shifter fell off in my hand. Might be something to check. You will need a short wrench though as there is very little room under the plastic.

The seats are not the greatest but they do okay. I'm really hoping that if they come out with bucket seats for 2017 that the fronts are able to be retrofit.

 

[sharp]

If the 4wd 2wd turf and lock is in its selected position, that's what it in regardless of what the dash indicator says. There is a delay on the dash indicator sometimes it may take longer than other times to show what it's in.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

If the 4wd 2wd turf and lock is in its selected position, that's what it in regardless of what the dash indicator says. There is a delay on the dash indicator sometimes it may take longer than other times to show what it's in.

That was actually something I was going to post a question about.

I have been religiously following the rule that you must stop before changing modes. I would do so, and wait, sometimes several minutes and nothing would happen. So I would go on and then several minutes later, after I had started moving, the indicator would change. That got me to wondering, is the indicator the chicken or the egg? Since it can cause damage to change "on the fly" is the indicator changing an eighth of a mile down a trail while under load just as likely to damage it.

I would be highly pissed if that caused damage and left me stranded and then I began to wonder if something like that happened, would it be covered under warranty or would it be considered abuse.

I found it odd that it seemed to be affected by heat. I noticed it happening on the 2nd run and started paying more attention and it had bad "lag" towards the end of that run. One the 3rd run, it had little lag at the start, but it switched fine but by the end of that run, the indicator never left Turf.

 

[500]

Well, I managed to get another 40 or so miles on it today at the farm.

I got to ride it on some very short highway drives, field roads and our woods trail. My brother and I rode several hours, took a break, went to eat at the local old style non-Buffet ruined Dairy Queen where you can still get little cheeseburgers and hot fudge cakes. Then we came back and road for a while, took another break and played a video game he had been wanting me to try out and then we went back out for a final couple of loops around.

The Good:

-I really, really, really now like the paddle shifters. Like others have said, they aren't a gimmick, they are extremely useful and fun to use. Very useful on our extremely hilly/bumpy woods trail. I originally ran through it several times in Low Auto but there was a lot of "wandering" shifting. It would up/down shift at annoying times and jerk us around so I took over and I could keep it in either 1/2/3 based on what I knew was coming up next.

-Plenty of ground clearance and engine power

-The doors were very useful since the guy that is SUPPOSED to be keeping my trails/fields mowed isn't doing his job and is only cutting the hay. In return for getting the hay for free, he is SUPPOSED to mow my trails as well. They were pretty grown up with small trees and LOTS of blackberries and briars. We would have been in shreds if we had gone through that on ATVs or even in my brother's old RZR he was very impressed with the doors and they also did a pretty good job of keeping the mud off of us on the field road

-The noise level was very low. I was expecting it to be much louder, especially in the woods but I could hear everything my motor mouth brother said and he talked the WHOLE TIME. Maybe this shouldn't be in The Good section

The Bad

-HOT, HOT, HOT. Everything on this machine is hot to the touch. The seat cushion is hot, the front of the seat is hot, the divider between back and the cushion is really hot, the dash is hot, the button to reset the trip meter is hot, the back of the seat is hot, behind the seat is hot. It isn't to the point of being unbearable, not quite to the point of being uncomfortable, but close. It is annoying though. I actually find the heat blowing through the shifter openings to be much more aggravating that the seat heat although the seat and the front of the seats did get a little warm. I don't know that adding a shield will really help that. I think blowers would likely be a bigger improvement

-Stupid shift mode on the dash stopped working reliably sometime in the middle of the 2nd run. It stopped working completely at the end of the day. I kept it in turf mode when on the highway and field road sections but shifted it to 2 wheel lock when running in the woods. After I noticed that the indicator was wrong, I started paying attention. The hotter it got, the longer it took to shift, eventually at the end of the ride, it would not indicate anything but Turf mode. I had to trailer it back home with the indicator on Turf mode because I couldn't get it to shift into 4WD lock. That is really annoying. I specifically looked at that when I picked it up and it was working perfectly fine when I loaded it on the trailer this morning.

-While the seating position itself is quite nice, the seat cushions get pretty uncomfortable after a long ride. My butt felt flat when I got out.

The Meh

-My brother liked the suspension, I didn't dislike it, it was kind of jarring on some stuff but quite comfortable on others. I would love to do a direct comparison to something else. My brother said that at lower speeds the suspension felt better than his old RZR but not quite as good at higher speeds

-The brakes seem to have gotten better but I still wish they would do a better job of stopping, I am almost at my first service interval and I am going to let the dealer do the first service and have the check them out while they have it

-While it was enjoyable to ride, I don't really feel that I got the full value for the amount I spent. I definitely should have taken my wife up on the offer to take a trip to rent both of them at Windrock before buying.

Check out my thread here: http://hondasxs.com/threads/clutch-shifting-question.5888/#post-70291
The lower shift box that controls the 2wd, lock, etc. needs to be adjusted. Piece of cake. Mine was out of adjustment as can be seen in the photos. Your upper is most likely fine and won't need adjusting like mine did (separate issue, effected ability to shift smoothly b/w gears, not mode selector).
Also, my kids ride in the middle, and I have the bayouownbeer heat shield installed. Some have negligible results, but I can say mine does not get hot with the shield installed. I have the outers under the plastic and the middle exposed. Works great.
I also (while adjusting the upper shifter) noticed the black rubber cover on the shift lever was out of whack. I slid it around and adjusted it which reduced some gear shifter blow by heat. I am looking at dabbing something up this week as I I'll be adding more accessories and will be in there running wires anyway.
No unit is perfect by any means, but I do hope it grows on you as it has myself and many others.
Try the lower shift box adjustment as it probably is out a touch. 4 10mm bolts in access cover, and you can turn the adjustment nuts inside with your fingers.
Good luck!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I had an issue with the shifter on my first big ride too. My issue was a lose bolt that connects the shifter to the frame. I found this out when the bolt fell out and the shifter fell off in my hand. Might be something to check. You will need a short wrench though as there is very little room under the plastic.

The seats are not the greatest but they do okay. I'm really hoping that if they come out with bucket seats for 2017 that the fronts are able to be retrofit.

Shifter, so far, is fine, it is the apparent disconnect between the mode I put it in and the mode that is displayed on the screen that I don't like.

I don't want to damage something but the damn thing won't ever change if you just sit there. Should you be very gentle with it until you see it shift? Am I not holding my head right? Do I need to get out and pirouette twice and say Simon Says you should now go into 2 wheel lock? Do I need to follow the directions in the manual to "After changing the drive mode, drive several yards, making right and left turns, and make sure that indicators work properly." That is kind of hard to do if you are on a narrow trail and you need to be in either 4WD or Locked in. Should I back up until I get "several yards" down the trail in the other direction, and wiggle it around until I get the indicator on, then drive through the bad spot in the trail. What do I do then? Leave it in lock because I don't know what is up ahead? Do I leave it in 4WD all the time? Very frustrating.

Even more frustrating is the statement in the manual: "If the indicators do not go out or come on according to the drive mode position, see your dealer."

Am I supposed to keep my dealer in the bed or something? What if I am out somewhere on a trail 30 miles from my truck and 3.5 hours away from my dealer? Do I need to leave it in whatever drive mode is showing and "limp home" and take it back to the dealer? Is it safe to drive in this condition? What about the requirement on page 210 for towing that says: "1. Shift the shift select lever into the park (P) position and the drive mode select lever into 4WD Diff Lock position." Well, the damn indicator never leaves Turf mode... Is it safe to trailer?

To top it off, it was F***ing annoying AND rather embarrassing as my brother, who is still an ardent Polaris fan, would just sit there and smirk or say that I should have gotten a Ranger with a push button...

 

[ghost]

The adjustment that 500 posted is easy (dont need to see your dealer).
My cable must have stretched in the first 100 miles and needed adjusting.
At first mine was a bit annoying too but now that its all broken-in the dash indicators come on faster. The indicators are based on sensors and the gears are manufactured with sharp angles - so i think it takes them a bit longer to engage when new.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

The adjustment that 500 posted is easy (dont need to see your dealer).
My cable must have stretched in the first 100 miles and needed adjusting.
At first mine was a bit annoying too but now that its all broken-in the dash indicators come on faster. The indicators are based on sensors and the gears are manufactured with sharp angles - so i think it takes them a bit longer to engage when new.

What about when you are several miles down a trail and it stops working right? Do you jack the machine up and follow the procedure outlined in the service manual (that doesn't come with the machine) for adjusting it? Is that how Honda engineers expected it to work? Everyone is supposed to bring a jack, whatever tool is needed to open that case up and a service manual so they can adjust their cables in the field or are we supposed to make sure we do all our driving in a field next to the dealer so when it stops working right we can just drive over there and let them fix it since they don't include these instructions in the actual owners manual.

Is the indicator an "idiot light" or is it actually reading the position? If it is just an idiot light and has no real bearing on the function of the shifter, no big deal. If it is actually telling you that when you shifted it into 4WD Diff Lock and it really wasn't shifted and then you drive off into a mud hole and while under power it suddenly locks in and your wheels, (that you didn't realize were unlocked) go from free rolling to trying to engage with a high RPM shaft and the teeth get chewed off, who's responsibility is that? Yours because you didn't make sure that the machine was actually locked in via an indicator/shift lever that spontaneously stretches and stops functioning correctly without warning or Honda because they designed it so that it could do that and tells you to drive "several yards" so it will engage while telling you if it engages while moving it can cause damage?

I am a design engineer. I design doors for a living. If I put a note in our customer instructions that said the only way they could get their door to lock completely was by slamming the door but they should never slam the door because it could break the lock, how long do you think I could continue being employed at that job?

I really wasn't expecting to need to bring a jack, a service manual and extra tools with me yesterday. I probably shifted it multiple times before I noticed that the indicator wasn't showing what I had done. How can I check for damage to the differential?

I want to make sure I am not going to get stuck with repairs when I trade it in on something that doesn't require me to carry a shop manual, a jack, a tool kit and a roll of heat resistant insulation and a fan to drive with decent comfort around a 1 mile loop in the woods.

 

[rmk700]

Shifter, so far, is fine, it is the apparent disconnect between the mode I put it in and the mode that is displayed on the screen that I don't like.

I don't want to damage something but the damn thing won't ever change if you just sit there. Should you be very gentle with it until you see it shift? Am I not holding my head right? Do I need to get out and pirouette twice and say Simon Says you should now go into 2 wheel lock? Do I need to follow the directions in the manual to "After changing the drive mode, drive several yards, making right and left turns, and make sure that indicators work properly." That is kind of hard to do if you are on a narrow trail and you need to be in either 4WD or Locked in. Should I back up until I get "several yards" down the trail in the other direction, and wiggle it around until I get the indicator on, then drive through the bad spot in the trail. What do I do then? Leave it in lock because I don't know what is up ahead? Do I leave it in 4WD all the time? Very frustrating.

Even more frustrating is the statement in the manual: "If the indicators do not go out or come on according to the drive mode position, see your dealer."

Am I supposed to keep my dealer in the bed or something? What if I am out somewhere on a trail 30 miles from my truck and 3.5 hours away from my dealer? Do I need to leave it in whatever drive mode is showing and "limp home" and take it back to the dealer? Is it safe to drive in this condition? What about the requirement on page 210 for towing that says: "1. Shift the shift select lever into the park (P) position and the drive mode select lever into 4WD Diff Lock position." Well, the damn indicator never leaves Turf mode... Is it safe to trailer?

To top it off, it was F***ing annoying AND rather embarrassing as my brother, who is still an ardent Polaris fan, would just sit there and smirk or say that I should have gotten a Ranger with a push button...

Your getting all worked up over such an easy fix.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I think Honda really "cheaped" out with that cable operated set-up. For what they get out of those things I would think they could've afforded to use an electric shifting turf/2/4 /diff lock. I sure liked the set-up our old Ranger had, and seemed to work reliably. It works great on the Foreman and Rubicon.

+1000

My 2007 Rincon had a simple switch to go into 4WD. Stop, slide the switch, clunk, 4WD light came on, stop slide the switch back, clunk, light went off....

Never had to adjust anything.

That is what really ticks me off. I bought the Rincon, took it out to the farm, drove it around, serviced it. I never fooled with it or worried about it the whole time I had it other than the first time I put the brakes on hard it had brake chatter and I looked that up on the internet and found out it was normal.

I have had more problems and worried/thought more about this P1000 in the 3 days I have owned it than the entire 9 years I owned my Rincon....

 

[sharp]

Give it time. Your worrying too much. If you don't like it trade it in on a Rincon.

 

[Plumber101010]

I think you're waaaaaaaay overthinking that. You said you're an engineer right? Yep, that would explain it! LOL

I would just drive it some more and get used to it and put some miles on it and not worry about that too much. You're trying to micromanage it.

I have the EXACT same problem but I normally just leave it in 4 x 4 virtually all the time and don't do much shifting.

But it's VERY irritating when you start to find yourself in a very precarious situation and see yourself losing traction and try to lock the axles and they won't lock!!

And how are you going to "drive a few yards" when you're stuck!!! Not all terrain is familiar and predictable and trying to guess with the ole crystal ball when you need to lock the axles aheaf of time is not always a win-win situation.

But it does sound like you're doing one heck of a lot of shifting around for different terrains and I don't necessarily see the need or advantage to doing that. If you're doing it as a test that's great but in reality I would just leave it in one or maybe two modes and go from there. Using turf mode for street driving I wouldn't recommend either. I like having positive traction with both tires.

The cable fix is what you need to do and I have not personally done it yet because it's not that big of an issue. But again, I leave it in 4 x 4 mode and seldom if ever take it out of it.

I to posted the exact same question on this forum about it dropping into mode while driving and the universal opinion was don't worry about it it's not that big of a deal. But again, it's not something that you like just do the cable fix or have the dealer do it

I have found the lights DO correspond to actually working togather or I haven't found a situation yet where one or the other wasn't working in conjunction with each other.

I vote for putting more miles on it, get it loosened up and broken in and adjust the cables for the shifting mode and I think most of your problems will be solved.

I've posted a few times that I'm using seat cushions filled with gel and have posted links and they not only take away all of the heat but give you a very comfy butt!

One thing I have not yet understood is my shifter has a rubber gasket that looks like it was designed to fill the gap to prevent heat and dust and wind but yet the rubber gasket is 6 inches away and no matter how hard I try I can't get it to stay in place or even get it close enough to block the opening!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Your getting all worked up over such an easy fix.

When you bought your truck, did you expect to have to adjust cables to make it go into 4WD?

When you go to the store and buy a new TV, do you expect to open the back panel and adjust wires so it will change channels?

If you went to the dealership and bought a new lawnmower would you expect to adjust cables to make the blades engage?

I am an engineer. If I put some time in researching and prototyping and building I could very likely come up with a method to completely eliminate the need to ever make those adjustments.

But that is why I paid $20k for the machine.

 

[sharp]

I wouldn't expect it. But if I had to make a few adjustments on something new it's no big deal. It's usually a one time fix or adjustment.

 

[Plumber101010]

When you bought your truck, did you expect to have to adjust cables to make it go into 4WD?

When you go to the store and buy a new TV, do you expect to open the back panel and adjust wires so it will change channels?

If you went to the dealership and bought a new lawnmower would you expect to adjust cables to make the blades engage?

I am an engineer. If I put some time in researching and prototyping and building I could very likely come up with a method to completely eliminate the need to ever make those adjustments.

But that is why I paid $20k for the machine.

No, but I did expect a warranty so that if those problems ever appeared they would be fixed for free

 

[rmk700]

When you bought your truck, did you expect to have to adjust cables to make it go into 4WD?

When you go to the store and buy a new TV, do you expect to open the back panel and adjust wires so it will change channels?

If you went to the dealership and bought a new lawnmower would you expect to adjust cables to make the blades engage?

I am an engineer. If I put some time in researching and prototyping and building I could very likely come up with a method to completely eliminate the need to ever make those adjustments.

But that is why I paid $20k for the machine.

Yes, I consider it as typical adjustment maintenance.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Yes, I consider it as typical adjustment maintenance.

When was the last time you took the back off your LED tv and adjusted wires or adjusted the 4WD engagement on your truck?

 

[500]

What about when you are several miles down a trail and it stops working right? Do you jack the machine up and follow the procedure outlined in the service manual (that doesn't come with the machine) for adjusting it? Is that how Honda engineers expected it to work? Everyone is supposed to bring a jack, whatever tool is needed to open that case up and a service manual so they can adjust their cables in the field or are we supposed to make sure we do all our driving in a field next to the dealer so when it stops working right we can just drive over there and let them fix it since they don't include these instructions in the actual owners manual.

Is the indicator an "idiot light" or is it actually reading the position? If it is just an idiot light and has no real bearing on the function of the shifter, no big deal. If it is actually telling you that when you shifted it into 4WD Diff Lock and it really wasn't shifted and then you drive off into a mud hole and while under power it suddenly locks in and your wheels, (that you didn't realize were unlocked) go from free rolling to trying to engage with a high RPM shaft and the teeth get chewed off, who's responsibility is that? Yours because you didn't make sure that the machine was actually locked in via an indicator/shift lever that spontaneously stretches and stops functioning correctly without warning or Honda because they designed it so that it could do that and tells you to drive "several yards" so it will engage while telling you if it engages while moving it can cause damage?

I am a design engineer. I design doors for a living. If I put a note in our customer instructions that said the only way they could get their door to lock completely was by slamming the door but they should never slam the door because it could break the lock, how long do you think I could continue being employed at that job?

I really wasn't expecting to need to bring a jack, a service manual and extra tools with me yesterday. I probably shifted it multiple times before I noticed that the indicator wasn't showing what I had done. How can I check for damage to the differential?

I want to make sure I am not going to get stuck with repairs when I trade it in on something that doesn't require me to carry a shop manual, a jack, a tool kit and a roll of heat resistant insulation and a fan to drive with decent comfort around a 1 mile loop in the woods.

I will tell you that you would have had the exact same issue with the Wolverine. I do expect it to take a minute as that is how it is with true mechanical locking front diffs. These are not Hilliard differentials as in Polaris and Can am. These are far superior in strength and have true gear to gear locking mechanisms. The Polaris and Can Am units will never have to await the mechanism to lock up, as they have a Hilliard which uses a magnet to throw out a mechanism to engage the front end when it senses the rear is outrunning it. Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki use true 4WD, not AWD, and it takes a minute sometimes to engage front diff lock just as my 2011 Z71 crew cab does shifting into low 4WD. At the farm the other day, I twisted the button into 4-low and it sat there and flashed - not immediately engaging - until I put it into reverse and backed up a few yards - then it clunked into low. I have the habit of always backing up a few yards in any vehicle I have ever owned to make certain in my own mind everything is disengaged when coming back out of 4wd. A mechanical mechanism has to engage. My Wolverine would sometimes engage in lock in 10 seconds, other times I'd have to drive and turn the wheels left to right for 15 yards, and sometimes back up until the light quit blinking. Same thing coming out of lock. It is very well documented over on the Wolverine forum as many owners had never dealt with a true locking diff - esp those coming from a Hilliard style. The light flashes and flashes and flashes then finally you can wiggle just right and it will engage. It will get better as things loosen up, but it will never always be immediate - sometimes it will seem that way sometimes it won't - regardless of who makes it. Things have to mesh perfectly for the gears to line up which sometimes requires slow speed movement. Yamaha is the exact same way. I'd rather adjust a cable than lose 4WD due to a fuse blowing with an electronic actuator style design.