P1000 Ohio Riders- No title required?!?!

[dnjones161]

Backstory- I'm in the market for a p500, found one on craigslist and talked to the gentleman last night. He says he bought it in Kentucky, and never had a title issued for the state of ohio. For those foriegners that may be reading- Ohio has required titles on dirtbikes and atvs since around 2000, and for some time its been a big red flag to buy something without a title. He assures me that I can get a title, but i tell him I'm gonna have to call the BMV before I come look.

So this morning I call the title department and the lady tells me if it had a bed, in Ohio, as of about a year ago, its a "utility vehicle" and does not require a title or tax.

Anyone else heard this? Big implications from the standpoint of purchasing new. at 7.25% sales tax in my county, thats well over 1000 dollars off a new unit.

Anyone else heard similar? May be worth asking some questions if you are considering a new unit!

 

[Admin]

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Backstory- I'm in the market for a p500, found one on craigslist and talked to the gentleman last night. He says he bought it in Kentucky, and never had a title issued for the state of ohio. For those foriegners that may be reading- Ohio has required titles on dirtbikes and atvs since around 2000, and for some time its been a big red flag to buy something without a title. He assures me that I can get a title, but i tell him I'm gonna have to call the BMV before I come look.

So this morning I call the title department and the lady tells me if it had a bed, in Ohio, as of about a year ago, its a "utility vehicle" and does not require a title or tax.

Anyone else heard this? Big implications from the standpoint of purchasing new. at 7.25% sales tax in my county, thats well over 1000 dollars off a new unit.

Anyone else heard similar? May be worth asking some questions if you are considering a new unit!

I'm certainly not an expert. I don't think I'd buy one without a title myself these days. If it would turn up to be stolen you are out of luck. If it comes with the original dealership receipt and the guy is willing to write you up a bill of sale then I'd consider it, but outside of something like that it wouldn't be a good enough deal for me. As for the tax side...people write very small amounts on titles during private party sales all the time.

 

[dnjones161]

You make a good point Jeremie. Also, its misleading to discuss this in the context of new units. A dealer is still going to have to charge sales tax on a brand new unit- titled or not. I guess this only comes into play for people that are looking at a used unit, with a bed (700 or 1000).

I hear you about the stolen unit thing- but the same concern comes up when you buy a trailer or something else not titled. At the end of the day you have to deal with people that you have a good feel for. The way the law has been- i agree completely, no title no sale.

Butttt if I found a unit with a title, I might ask a few questions to the title Dept before I rushed down with my wallet to get a new title in my name....

 

[BigOL3]

Backstory- I'm in the market for a p500, found one on craigslist and talked to the gentleman last night. He says he bought it in Kentucky, and never had a title issued for the state of ohio. For those foriegners that may be reading- Ohio has required titles on dirtbikes and atvs since around 2000, and for some time its been a big red flag to buy something without a title. He assures me that I can get a title, but i tell him I'm gonna have to call the BMV before I come look.

So this morning I call the title department and the lady tells me if it had a bed, in Ohio, as of about a year ago, its a "utility vehicle" and does not require a title or tax.

Anyone else heard this? Big implications from the standpoint of purchasing new. at 7.25% sales tax in my county, thats well over 1000 dollars off a new unit. I bought a new '18, and do not have a title, on Certificate of Origin.

Anyone else heard similar? May be worth asking some questions if you are considering a new unit!

Theoretically, if you bought it without a title and used it only OFF road, how in the world would the state of Ohio even know about it??? I would not worry about it. Get a notorized BoS. I bought a new '18 and do not have a title, only Certificate of Origin.

 

[Plumber32]

You make a good point Jeremie. Also, its misleading to discuss this in the context of new units. A dealer is still going to have to charge sales tax on a brand new unit- titled or not. I guess this only comes into play for people that are looking at a used unit, with a bed (700 or 1000).

I hear you about the stolen unit thing- but the same concern comes up when you buy a trailer or something else not titled. At the end of the day you have to deal with people that you have a good feel for. The way the law has been- i agree completely, no title no sale.

Butttt if I found a unit with a title, I might ask a few questions to the title Dept before I rushed down with my wallet to get a new title in my name....

Just run the vin # through the police dept. To protect and serve is their motto!

 

[NTCPrezJB]

You make a good point Jeremie. Also, its misleading to discuss this in the context of new units. A dealer is still going to have to charge sales tax on a brand new unit- titled or not. I guess this only comes into play for people that are looking at a used unit, with a bed (700 or 1000).

I hear you about the stolen unit thing- but the same concern comes up when you buy a trailer or something else not titled. At the end of the day you have to deal with people that you have a good feel for. The way the law has been- i agree completely, no title no sale.

Butttt if I found a unit with a title, I might ask a few questions to the title Dept before I rushed down with my wallet to get a new title in my name....

New or used I believe (could easily be wrong) that the dealer is collecting the sales tax unless you are showing some tax exempt paperwork. I've never bought a used unit from a dealership so it is a total assumption on my part. The only used unit I've bought was from my brother. I don't think I ever bothered to even transfer the title on it.

It is definitely worth a few minutes of time to research though.

 

[BigOL3]

New or used I believe (could easily be wrong) that the dealer is collecting the sales tax unless you are showing some tax exempt paperwork. I've never bought a used unit from a dealership so it is a total assumption on my part. The only used unit I've bought was from my brother. I don't think I ever bothered to even transfer the title on it.

It is definitely worth a few minutes of time to research though.

Likely depends on your state and the state you buy it from. I bought out of state and did NOT pay sales tax thru dealer.

 

[dnjones161]

Correct- if you buy from a dealer- new or used- they must collect a sales tax as an "agent of the state". This is why @BigOL3 didnt pay sales tax on his- purchased out of state.

The only way this comes into play is if you are buying from a private party.

Any other counties may subscribe to different interpretations of that law. Shelby County however, made it sound like if it has a bed, its a utility vehicle and they don't need a title so far as they are concerned.

Def worth asking your local authority a few questions.

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Just run the vin # through the police dept. To protect and serve is their motto!

I was actually told by a couple of different local Police Departments and the State Highway Patrol that they couldn't and wouldn't run a vin for me on a quad I was considering buying years ago. I told all of them that I'd give them the name, address and phone number of its current location along with the vin. If it comes back stolen you guys can pick it up, if it doesn't then I can go buy it. They all refused. I passed on it because of that. A few months later I found out it was stolen and the kid that bought it was out his cash and had to pay some court costs to fight a possession of stolen property charge.

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Theoretically, if you bought it without a title and used it only OFF road, how in the world would the state of Ohio even know about it??? I would not worry about it. Get a notorized BoS. I bought a new '18 and do not have a title, only Certificate of Origin.

The Ohio APV (all purpose vehicle) sticker used to require a title to get. The sticker was required to use it on the state trails. If you plan to use on it private land or pay to use riding parks I'm sure you would be fine without getting it titled in Ohio. Otherwise here is a couple quick copies of important info to know and the Ohio BMV site link I got it from for what it is worth.


ALL-PURPOSE VEHICLES (APVS), OFF-ROAD MOTORCYCLES AND SNOWMOBILES
For the definitions on APVs, off-road motorcycles, and snowmobiles, click HERE. For registration, the following must be presented:

• Ohio certificate of title or memorandum of title
• Valid Ohio driver license, state ID or Social Security card

If the vehicle will be used before a title is secured, a 45-day temporary tag for APVs or a 30-day temporary tag for off-road motorcycles is available from your dealership. Temporary tags are not issued for snowmobiles (snowmobiles are not titled).

APVs must have a license plate and registration sticker or Ohio decal, unless the APV is used primarily for agricultural purposes and the owner qualifies for the agricultural use valuation tax credit.

• Registration is valid for three years and expires on December 31 of the third year after the date of issuance.
• Application for renewal may be completed 90 days prior to expiration.
• APV license plates do not entitle a rider to operate the APV on public roadways.
• Residents of other states must purchase a one-year registration to use their APVs/off-road motorcycles in Ohio.

Methods for Registration
In person at your deputy registrar license agency.

Ohio Revised Code: 4503.37

Source: State of Ohio BMV





APV per Ohio...
ALL-PURPOSE VEHICLES (APVS), OFF-ROAD MOTORCYCLES AND SNOWMOBILES
Definitions
All-purpose vehicle means any self-propelled vehicle designed primarily for cross-country travel on land and water, or on more than one type of terrain, and steered by wheels or caterpillar treads, or any combination thereof, including vehicles that operate on a cushion of air, vehicles commonly known as all-terrain vehicles, all-season vehicles, mini-bikes and trail bikes.

Off-road motorcycle means every motorcycle designed to be operated primarily on lands other than a street or highway.

Snowmobile means any self-propelled vehicle designed primarily for use on snow or ice, and steered by skis, runners or caterpillar treads.

What Do I Need to Know?

• Snowmobiles are untitled vehicles.
• APVs and off-road motorcycles sold on or after 07/01/1999 must be titled in the purchaser’s name.
• Sales and use tax must be paid to the County Clerk of Courts Title Offices unless the purchaser is entitled to claim exception or exemption.
• If you own an APV purchased before 07/01/1999, you must have an Ohio certificate of title issued in your name before selling it.
• If you buy an APV or off-road motorcycle from an Ohio dealership, the dealer will handle the vehicle title paperwork for you. By law, your dealer is required to provide you with your new title within 30 days of your vehicle purchase.
• The only vehicle allowed to be converted from off-road to on-road use is a motorcycle.
• For information on how to register, click HERE.

What Do I Need to Bring to the Title Office?
APVs and off-road motorcycles purchased on or after 07/01/1999:

• Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO)
• If titling from another state, certificate of title in applicant's name or assigned to Ohio resident (if applicable)
• For out-of-state titles only, an out-of-state vehicle identification number (VIN) inspection; inspections can be obtained at any Ohio deputy registrar license agency (click HERE for current fee) for or new car dealership (call ahead for fee)
• Payment for title fees, including a lien holder notation (if applicable)
• Sales tax on purchase price (sales tax rates by county are available HERE)

APVs and off-road motorcycles purchased before 07/01/1999:

• Proof of ownership with one or more of the following:
  • Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO)
  • A sworn, notarized affidavit declaring ownership of the vehicle by the applicant
  • A sworn, notarized affidavit by other persons attesting to applicant's ownership
  • Receipts in applicant's name from the purchase of parts or components
  • Photographs and/or pencil tracings of the VIN

• For out-of-state titles only, an out-of-state vehicle identification number (VIN) inspection; inspections can be obtained at any Ohio deputy registrar license agency (click HERE for fee information) for or new car dealership (call ahead for fee)
• Payment for title fees, including a lien holder notation (if applicable)
• Sales tax on purchase price (sales tax rates by county are available HERE)

APVs and off-road motorcycles purchased from a state that does not require them to be titled must be titled in Ohio and will need the following documents:

• Proof of ownership with one or more of the following:
  • Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO)
  • A current or expired registration issued by another state
  • A current insurance policy or declaration page issued to the applicant that describes the vehicle by VIN, year, make and model
  • A warranty order in applicant's name that describes the vehicle by VIN, year, make and model
  • A security agreement that lists the owner, lender, VIN, year and make

• A current or expired insurance document
• A notarized bill of sale
• For out-of-state titles only, an out-of-state vehicle identification number (VIN) inspection; inspections can be obtained at any Ohio deputy registrar license agency (click HERE for current fee) for or new car dealership (call ahead for fee)
• Payment for title fees, including a lien holder notation (if applicable)
• Sales tax on purchase price (sales tax rates by county are available HERE)

Ohio Revised Code: 4519.01

Source: State of Ohio BMV

 

[BigOL3]

The Ohio APV (all purpose vehicle) sticker used to require a title to get. The sticker was required to use it on the state trails. If you plan to use on it private land or pay to use riding parks I'm sure you would be fine without getting it titled in Ohio. Otherwise here is a couple quick copies of important info to know and the Ohio BMV site link I got it from for what it is worth.


Source: State of Ohio BMV

Just ANOTHER way for the state to get more of your $$...... lol

 

[Plumber32]

I was actually told by a couple of different local Police Departments and the State Highway Patrol that they couldn't and wouldn't run a vin for me on a quad I was considering buying years ago. I told all of them that I'd give them the name, address and phone number of its current location along with the vin. If it comes back stolen you guys can pick it up, if it doesn't then I can go buy it. They all refused. I passed on it because of that. A few months later I found out it was stolen and the kid that bought it was out his cash and had to pay some court costs to fight a possession of stolen property charge.

They will do it around here. They will actually show up to events and run vins

 

[DDDonkey]

I would pass it it where me unless you know the seller. When I brought my wife three wheeler to AZ from LA, I had to jump through hoops to get a title because LA did not issue them in 1982. You can make it happen it is just a pain, oh and I bought the tree wheeler from my mother in law as it was my wife dad's and he bought it new. I had the sales receipt, a Bill of Sale and my mother in law there when I tried to register it, and it was still a pain.

 

[BigOL3]

I would pass it it where me unless you know the seller. When I brought my wife three wheeler to AZ from LA, I had to jump through hoops to get a title because LA did not issue them in 1982. You can make it happen it is just a pain, oh and I bought the tree wheeler from my mother in law as it was my wife dad's and he bought it new. I had the sales receipt, a Bill of Sale and my mother in law there when I tried to register it, and it was still a pain.

WHY would anyone chose to register/title UTV and pay tax? Is it just be ride on state land??

 

[Firemedic530]

Yes, I'm also in ohio. We need the tag for the state parks and for 50"or less, we have some nice national forest trail systems. It also comes into play if you want to sell. It's another way for them to get the tax dollars. The APV tag isn't a big deal $35 and it's good for 3 years.

 

[BigOL3]

Yes, I'm also in ohio. We need the tag for the state parks and for 50"or less, we have some nice national forest trail systems. It also comes into play if you want to sell. It's another way for them to get the tax dollars. The APV tag isn't a big deal $35 and it's good for 3 years.

BUT, I assume to get title requires sales tax on the value.

 

[Firemedic530]

BUT, I assume to get title requires sales tax on the value.

Yes, unless you have agriculture exemption. That's where the state gets their money out of your pocket. The tax is on the declared sales price. Not on valuation, but they occasionally send audit forms to seller to see if they say the same price.

 

[dnjones161]

I was actually told by a couple of different local Police Departments and the State Highway Patrol that they couldn't and wouldn't run a vin for me on a quad I was considering buying years ago. I told all of them that I'd give them the name, address and phone number of its current location along with the vin. If it comes back stolen you guys can pick it up, if it doesn't then I can go buy it. They all refused. I passed on it because of that. A few months later I found out it was stolen and the kid that bought it was out his cash and had to pay some court costs to fight a possession of stolen property charge.

What useful public servants

 

[DDDonkey]

WHY would anyone chose to register/title UTV and pay tax? Is it just be ride on state land??

Buying a vehicle second hand from a private party in AZ does not cause you to pay tax, but any vehicle in AZ ridden on state or federal land (50cc or bigger) must have an off-road sticker, and to get that you must have a title and plate (one time fee). I think the register my kids mini bikes was like $25 (for the title) and $25 for the annual off road tag.

 

[Mudwing]

Backstory- I'm in the market for a p500, found one on craigslist and talked to the gentleman last night. He says he bought it in Kentucky, and never had a title issued for the state of ohio. For those foriegners that may be reading- Ohio has required titles on dirtbikes and atvs since around 2000, and for some time its been a big red flag to buy something without a title. He assures me that I can get a title, but i tell him I'm gonna have to call the BMV before I come look.

So this morning I call the title department and the lady tells me if it had a bed, in Ohio, as of about a year ago, its a "utility vehicle" and does not require a title or tax.

Anyone else heard this? Big implications from the standpoint of purchasing new. at 7.25% sales tax in my county, thats well over 1000 dollars off a new unit.

Anyone else heard similar? May be worth asking some questions if you are considering a new unit!

Titling a vehicle is a state regulation. If it’s never been titled it should have a Certificate of Origin, like my babies birth certificate above. In NYS they will not register OHV’s over 1000 lbs. So the Certificate is my proof of ownership. I keep a copy in my glovebox to show the law or else they may tow it. Then it’s very difficult to get out of the impound. The early ATVs didn’t have the COO, so there’s ways around titling with the DMV. Pencil tracing of VIN, prior owner signatures, etc.
Like JB says, I’d stay away without proof or else problems down the road may occur.
The other thing I’d say, is around here the resale drops heavy without proof unless it’s an 80’s machine. With a title the price would go up.
And I’ll agree with BigOL3, why pay the state if you don’t have to? I’m good with my state not registering UTVs (SeXieS), just means more money in my pocket.