any electricians out there?

[L2R]

I just moved a work shop about 35' that is in the back yard.

I there is now a panel box with a 110 and a 220 breaker hanging in the wind and need to move it.

I am planning to trench a ditch, install a junction box and make the connections and re-wire the shop.
Then hire an electrician to inspect it and throw the switch.

Looking for some advice:
is 24" deep enough to trench for the lines?
can I run 1 piece of conduit in the ground and run all the wires through it?
what size wire would you recommend? the current location of the panel box is about 100-125 feet from the main breaker in the garage.
can the junction box be underground. there is one now above ground (not directly connected to what I am working on) and no idea why it would be there in the way of mowing so.....

thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Admin]

 

[JTW]

What are you planning on running in the shop?

 

[L2R]

Just 110 power tools and lights at present.

current config was 110 and 220 to the box.
110 ran the shop at left and pool light to the right.
220 runs the pool pump.


I would like to run both to the shop as 220 would be nice to have at some point but don't need it right now.
I only run the pool pump during the night so there would not be a time where I would be running pump and anything else.

 

[BBLASER]

Just 110 power tools and lights at present.

current config was 110 and 220 to the box.
110 ran the shop at left and pool light to the right.
220 runs the pool pump.


I would like to run both to the shop as 220 would be nice to have at some point but don't need it right now.
I only run the pool pump during the night so there would not be a time where I would be running pump and anything else.

Is this a sub panel from the main house? If so, what size breaker is feeding it? Ideally, you would want a 4 wire feed from the main house to the shop sub panel. (2hots, neutral and ground). 50amp breaker would be good for most applications on the initial feed with #6 or #4 wire.) From the shop sub panel, you can then branch out and use either 240 or 120 branch circuits depending on what you are feeding.

 

[ohanacreek]

I just moved a work shop about 35' that is in the back yard.

I there is now a panel box with a 110 and a 220 breaker hanging in the wind and need to move it.

I am planning to trench a ditch, install a junction box and make the connections and re-wire the shop.
Then hire an electrician to inspect it and throw the switch.

Looking for some advice:
is 24" deep enough to trench for the lines?
can I run 1 piece of conduit in the ground and run all the wires through it?
what size wire would you recommend? the current location of the panel box is about 100-125 feet from the main breaker in the garage.
can the junction box be underground. there is one now above ground (not directly connected to what I am working on) and no idea why it would be there in the way of mowing so.....

thanks in advance for any advice.

Looks like 1ga to get 160’ and have 100amp capacity. You’ll probably need 2-3” conduit for fill guidelines and it’ll have to be copper most municipalities won’t allow aluminum.

 

[L2R]

i will post pics later today. thanks for the info.

 

[ohanacreek]

I’d almost consider a second meter if you were trying to use a welder out there.

 

[JTW]

I’d almost consider a second meter if you were trying to use a welder out there.

That’s where I was going with it...

 

[trigger]

You're going to want access to that junction box, I wouldn't bury it. 24" to 30" below grade is standard for conduits. Throw a layer of dirt over them and then run some caution tape along the top of that before backfilling completely. Go with the 1ga copper for 100 amp service, you'll regret it later if you don't.

 

[seig]

I did my own six or seven years ago, but I only had about 45' to run. I went with a 100amp breaker off of the the house panel because all three of the welders and the air compressor are 220. I still try not to run any of them at the same time tho lol. I buried mine about 24" deep in 1 1/2" plastic conduit, making sure both ends were at least 18" above ground level. It would freak me out to have the junction box below ground tho, water will eventually find it's way in there. (you'll know it has happened when all the earth worms come shooting up out of the yard lol) One thing I would suggest tho is to pull a few wires through the conduit while you're at it for 3 way switches and such so you can turn your exterior lights on from the house and not have to walk out there in the dark (you'll step on all those earth worms). I also sunk a new 8' ground rod out at the shop too, not sure if it was necessary or not, but it made me feel better lol.

 

[BBLASER]

I agree with the above, If you plan on running welders, I would go with a 100 amp feed. Adding a 2nd meter incurs additional costs here in Az, so I see no real reason to add an additional meter. I suggest making a list of all possible tools you will or could be running in the future. Then a game plan is much easier to establish. Sure you can get a new service from the utility, but that might be absolute overkill for what you are planning.

 

[ohanacreek]

200amp is 3/0 or possibly 4/0 at 225amps.

For about $500-750, I’d just run that and not have to worry about it.

I’m hopefully about to run 100’ of it to a shop.

 

[L2R]

thanks, i wasn't clear i guess. I wasn't putting a panel box in the ground. but I do need a junction box of some sort to connect old to new wire.
So the juntion box needs to stay above ground?

here are some pics of what I have now -
left breaker- shop
middle- pool pump
right- pool light

last pic is label on pump



So, I have read thru this and it has confirmed what I know. and that is I can trench with the best of them and cut the cost a bit then let an electrician finish this.
I hate working on stuff I can't see and this hasn't changed it.

thanks everyone.

 

[ohanacreek]

thanks, i wasn't clear i guess. I wasn't putting a panel box in the ground. but I do need a junction box of some sort to connect old to new wire.
So the juntion box needs to stay above ground?

here are some pics of what I have now -
left breaker- shop
middle- pool pump
right- pool light

last pic is label on pump

View attachment 167551 View attachment 167552

Wow looks overloaded now at the distance you said earlier...

yes junction needs to stay above ground.

 

[JTW]

I did my own six or seven years ago, but I only had about 45' to run. I went with a 100amp breaker off of the the house panel because all three of the welders and the air compressor are 220. I still try not to run any of them at the same time tho lol. I buried mine about 24" deep in 1 1/2" plastic conduit, making sure both ends were at least 18" above ground level. It would freak me out to have the junction box below ground tho, water will eventually find it's way in there. (you'll know it has happened when all the earth worms come shooting up out of the yard lol) One thing I would suggest tho is to pull a few wires through the conduit while you're at it for 3 way switches and such so you can turn your exterior lights on from the house and not have to walk out there in the dark (you'll step on all those earth worms). I also sunk a new 8' ground rod out at the shop too, not sure if it was necessary or not, but it made me feel better lol.

Uhhh, I second the few wires! And we always run some sort of mule tape or another form of line that can be attached to and pulled thru the conduit with another wire attached for 10-20 years down the road when you realize you need more s*** out there.

 

[ohanacreek]

I did my own six or seven years ago, but I only had about 45' to run. I went with a 100amp breaker off of the the house panel because all three of the welders and the air compressor are 220. I still try not to run any of them at the same time tho lol. I buried mine about 24" deep in 1 1/2" plastic conduit, making sure both ends were at least 18" above ground level. It would freak me out to have the junction box below ground tho, water will eventually find it's way in there. (you'll know it has happened when all the earth worms come shooting up out of the yard lol) One thing I would suggest tho is to pull a few wires through the conduit while you're at it for 3 way switches and such so you can turn your exterior lights on from the house and not have to walk out there in the dark (you'll step on all those earth worms). I also sunk a new 8' ground rod out at the shop too, not sure if it was necessary or not, but it made me feel better lol.

You want to use the correct underground rated cable/wire, water will accumulate in the pipe, condensation is one method as the ground is cooler and if there’s air access in the summer it will start to “rain” in there.

 

[trigger]

Conduits under ground are always full of water. I would recommend an 8' ground rod at the garage as well.

 

[L2R]

All good info. Yes, I might end up welding out there so good advice.
It does have a ground rod. assuming it's 8' deep but no way to know if it's more than 6" deep as I wasn't here when this was done.

I have a good plan in place but didn't realize what is here was not done better. Most of the work the last home owner did was over kill so I wasn't expecting this.

Thanks all. I was going to trench and do what I could so the electrician could better see what he would be quoting and not pad it as much.
But I think I will just get one out here and make sure it is what it needs to be from the main breaker and figure it out after that.

 

[BBLASER]

Looking at that picture, it is basically worthless if you want to weld. That appears to be either 12ga. or 10ga. feed for that small sub panel. Those of us on here could talk you thru it, but I suggest getting an electrician involved that is willing to let you do the grunt work(digging) and have him add a new breaker at your house panel to feed your new sub panel at the shop. Figure out what exactly you want to run out there and size your wire accordingly. If a welder is in the future, 100 amp service will be plenty for 95% of people. Go with probably atleast an 8 space sub panel, bigger if you want to run dedicated circuits to different pieces of equipment. Good luck

 

[seig]

Looking at that picture, it is basically worthless if you want to weld. That appears to be either 12ga. or 10ga. feed for that small sub panel. Those of us on here could talk you thru it, but I suggest getting an electrician involved that is willing to let you do the grunt work(digging) and have him add a new breaker at your house panel to feed your new sub panel at the shop. Figure out what exactly you want to run out there and size your wire accordingly. If a welder is in the future, 100 amp service will be plenty for 95% of people. Go with probably atleast an 8 space sub panel, bigger if you want to run dedicated circuits to different pieces of equipment. Good luck

X2

I shouldn't have taken a light hearted approach to this subject. Judging from the pics, whoever wired that never intended to run more than lights and a couple of outlets. Unfortunately, I think you are in for a bigger project than you realize. Look at the panel in your home and that is basically what you will end up with in your shop, just on a slighly smaller scale. The feed wire to run that distance even for 100amp service will be bigger around than your thumb, probably 0 or 00 depending on if you use aluminum (much cheaper, but may be prohibited by your local ordinances) or copper. As stated above, whichever one you go with will need to be suitable for underground use. It is stiff, hard to work with and very expensive. Like @BBLASER suggested, I think your best bet is to find someone local that can walk you through what needs to be done and is willing to let you do the hard parts to save money. Whatever it costs to have someone come in, it will be far less expensive than having a house or shop fire.