P1000 Any driving techniques to protect the clutch?

[Crow_Hunter]

How can you protect the clutch when either starting from a stop on an incline?

I have noticed when crossing ravines and starting up after parking on a hill facing up that I feel what I think is a tiny bit of clutch slippage. It pretty much feels like it used to when starting on a hill with a manual transmission. A little bit shudder and then it is fine.

I can avoid the hill parking problem by making sure that I always park facing downhill but what about crossing ravines?

There is a small ravine on my farm that I cross. I ease up to the edge, drop down with the brake and then ease up the opposite side. The ravine is just slightly longer than the length of the Pioneer so I can't build up speed and it is rocky and steep enough that I can't just zoom down and back up the other side without taking a pretty hard hit.

Do I just need to go around a different way or is there a way to avoid slipping the clutch? Once I realized what was happening, I stopped to hopefully avoid any damage.

 

[Admin]

 

[hondabob]

I always give it enough throttle to get it moving to 3 mph right away. The slow easy throttle will slip the clutch until your moving to over about 2 1/2 mph. Slipping the clutch a little should be no problem but prolonged clutch slipping like using the throttle to hold it stopped on a uphill will be hard on the clutch. Same on all belt drives with a wet clutch and belt drive without a wet clutch you only need to be moving 1 mph for full belt hook up. The Pioneer 700 with a torque converter an be inched along without a problem and the Pioneer 500 is geared so low the clutch is probably fully engaged at around 1 1/2 mph with the stock 24 inch tires.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I always give it enough throttle to get it moving to 3 mph right away. The slow easy throttle will slip the clutch until your moving to over about 2 1/2 mph. Slipping the clutch a little should be no problem but prolonged clutch slipping like using the throttle to hold it stopped on a uphill will be hard on the clutch. Same on all belt drives with a wet clutch and belt drive without a wet clutch you only need to be moving 1 mph for full belt hook up. The Pioneer 700 with a torque converter an be inched along without a problem and the Pioneer 500 is geared so low the clutch is probably fully engaged at around 1 1/2 mph with the stock 24 inch tires.

So what do you do when you cross a steep but narrow ravine?

I couldn't figure out way to do it that didn't cause a little bit of judder going up. I throttled it as hard as I dared (actually thinking about your advice I had read earlier) without running the chance of flipping backwards or jumping it straight up.

When I did it on the hill behind the house picking up sticks, I decided that I would either make sure I was pointing down hill or sideways when I stopped from now on but I don't have that option to cross that ravine.

 

[hondabob]

You might want to dump a load of big rocks then fill it in with dirt to make it way less severe. If its steep enough your front bumper may hit at the bottom. I will turn around before I will abuse my clutch and on my Yamaha YXZ I don't take it on our low speed rides that require driving under 10 mph. I need the reliability and just too old and fat to walk very far. I got over 8,350 miles on the belt on my 2011 RZR 900. I do a lot of trail work and repair water damage and remove down trees.

 

[DRAGFOOT]

I think after you drive it more, you'll get the feel of what works or doesn't with your machine and how you drive it will become second nature to you.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I think after you drive it more, you'll get the feel of what works or doesn't with your machine and how you drive it will become second nature to you.

I agree, to a point. However, it isn't what I am used to and I am really struggling with how to actually USE it without damaging something.

I am a little disappointed that the clutch slips so easily. I am not abusing it in any way unless crossing a gully or going up a hill are abuse. I don't use the throttle to hold it in position or anything and I am not going up at less than 3 MPH other than what it takes to get it up to that speed. I just shift from park to Low and let off the brake while giving it throttle and I can feel a shudder for about a vehicle length which I assume is the clutch.

Part of my reasoning for getting it was using it to stop on a hill and pick up sticks/other junk and take it down to the bottom of the hill where the dump pile is and dumping a load. Apparently, doing either of those things causes the clutch to slip...

I am beginning to think that I bought the wrong machine for my uses.

Did Honda not look at the design parameters for how people were going to use this? You can't always get a running start to go up a hill and you can't always work on flat ground.

I realize that a CVT based machine would also have the same problems but if it is the non-wet clutch version (Polaris/Can Am) your belt is the "clutch" but it is WAY cheaper and WAY easier to change a belt than to replace a transmission when it is "abused" by actually being used....

Maybe there is a reason why they use the designs they use. I always thought it was because they were too lazy or too cheap to design something better.

I will keep my eye on the Thursday announcement, maybe they will make some improvements to the P700 and I might just "downgrade" to something that is a better design for my uses and terrain. I don't particularly like the fact that it has essentially no engine braking like my old Rincon but I would rather have no engine braking and not have to replace a clutch because I was actually using it for something other than flat trail riding.

 

[Delton]

It just takes getting used to. I don't even think about it now, just get in and go. But I don't do any slow moving jobs with it either. When it's time to spray weeds, I throw the sprayer on the back of my Foreman. Much better design for crawling around the property.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

It just takes getting used to. I don't even think about it now, just get in and go. But I don't do any slow moving jobs with it either. When it's time to spray weeds, I throw the sprayer on the back of my Foreman. Much better design for crawling around the property.

I wouldn't be doing a slow moving job but I do need to be able to climb a hill without getting a running start since to get a running start in my backyard would require me to start at the bottom of a small lake.

Unless I always face downhill which is okay up until I need to actually use the dump bed, which is part of the reason why I wanted this unit over others without a dump bed. My dump fill area for grass and leave and sticks is next to the lake under some trees so I have to be facing uphill to dump. If I am going to be damaging my transmission every time I use it for what I bought it for.....

 

[Delton]

I've climbed very steep hills without a running start. It's hard to explain exactly how I do it though lol. The throttle being touchy doesn't help lol. Like I said, it just takes little time to get used to it.

 

[DRAGFOOT]

I agree, to a point. However, it isn't what I am used to and I am really struggling with how to actually USE it without damaging something.

I am a little disappointed that the clutch slips so easily. I am not abusing it in any way unless crossing a gully or going up a hill are abuse. I don't use the throttle to hold it in position or anything and I am not going up at less than 3 MPH other than what it takes to get it up to that speed. I just shift from park to Low and let off the brake while giving it throttle and I can feel a shudder for about a vehicle length which I assume is the clutch.

Part of my reasoning for getting it was using it to stop on a hill and pick up sticks/other junk and take it down to the bottom of the hill where the dump pile is and dumping a load. Apparently, doing either of those things causes the clutch to slip...

I am beginning to think that I bought the wrong machine for my uses.

Did Honda not look at the design parameters for how people were going to use this? You can't always get a running start to go up a hill and you can't always work on flat ground.

I realize that a CVT based machine would also have the same problems but if it is the non-wet clutch version (Polaris/Can Am) your belt is the "clutch" but it is WAY cheaper and WAY easier to change a belt than to replace a transmission when it is "abused" by actually being used....

Maybe there is a reason why they use the designs they use. I always thought it was because they were too lazy or too cheap to design something better.

I will keep my eye on the Thursday announcement, maybe they will make some improvements to the P700 and I might just "downgrade" to something that is a better design for my uses and terrain. I don't particularly like the fact that it has essentially no engine braking like my old Rincon but I would rather have no engine braking and not have to replace a clutch because I was actually using it for something other than flat trail riding.

I think you are really, really looking into this whole deal way too far and causing yourself a lot of unnessesary stress. Seriously, go drive it like you would like to and my bet is it'll be just fine. You are seeing all kinds of spooks in the closet that don't exist. There are no monsters under the bed. Not trying to be a jerk but just go use it and don't think about it so much.

 

[Delton]

I think you are really, really looking into this whole deal way too far and causing yourself a lot of unnessesary stress. Seriously, go drive it like you would like to and my bet is it'll be just fine. You are seeing all kinds of spooks in the closet that don't exist. There are no monsters under the bed. Not trying to be a jerk but just go use it and don't think about it so much.

Excellent advice!

 

[Nightcrawler]

^I agree! Turn off the engineering part of your brain while driving your new toy and enjoy it! I think based on your postings, you are going to find things you don't like with any machine you would have purchased and that is ok, but have fun with the thing, stop worrying, and if by some chance you have a problem, Honda will fix it. I suggest instead of worrying and finding ways to not damage your machine, to run it hard (not stupid) while you are under warranty and see if you can find any weak links.

 

[500]

I wouldn't be doing a slow moving job but I do need to be able to climb a hill without getting a running start since to get a running start in my backyard would require me to start at the bottom of a small lake.

Unless I always face downhill which is okay up until I need to actually use the dump bed, which is part of the reason why I wanted this unit over others without a dump bed. My dump fill area for grass and leave and sticks is next to the lake under some trees so I have to be facing uphill to dump. If I am going to be damaging my transmission every time I use it for what I bought it for.....

I have climbed many, many steep, rocky, rutted hills with mine so far. Not only on an incline stopped, but rocks and ruts in the mix as well which makes starting from a dead stop even more difficult. Stop, turn the wheel, gas it a couple feet, stop again, creep another foot or two, etc. over and over for hours. I'll try to find some pics of the ride last weekend. Rocks and hills at a very slow, technical pace was just about all I did from 7:45pm til midnight. My clutch never batted an eye. It has definitely gotten smoother engaging as Joey alluded to on his as well. In fact, yesterday I backed my 6x12 trailer up a slight incline no problems. Now I did gas it from 0-4mph as reverse is a tad high to ensure proper engagement, but still no problems or shudder. Pics to come of the rocks/hills if I haven't deleted them...

 

[Crow_Hunter]

^I agree! Turn off the engineering part of your brain while driving your new toy and enjoy it! I think based on your postings, you are going to find things you don't like with any machine you would have purchased and that is ok, but have fun with the thing, stop worrying, and if by some chance you have a problem, Honda will fix it. I suggest instead of worrying and finding ways to not damage your machine, to run it hard (not stupid) while you are under warranty and see if you can find any weak links.

Unfortunately I can't do that. I look for problems and fix them all the time. I can't help myself.

I have been doing this too long.

 

[Delton]

Unfortunately I can't do that. I look for problems and fix them all the time. I can't help myself.

I have been doing this too long.

Wish you could come take a ride with me in mine some time. After seeing what i put mine through, you probably won't have a worry in the world about how you treat yours.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I have climbed many, many steep, rocky, rutted hills with mine so far. Not only on an incline stopped, but rocks and ruts in the mix as well which makes starting from a dead stop even more difficult. Stop, turn the wheel, gas it a couple feet, stop again, creep another foot or two, etc. over and over for hours. I'll try to find some pics of the ride last weekend. Rocks and hills at a very slow, technical pace was just about all I did from 7:45pm til midnight. My clutch never batted an eye. It has definitely gotten smoother engaging as Joey alluded to on his as well. In fact, yesterday I backed my 6x12 trailer up a slight incline no problems. Now I did gas it from 0-4mph as reverse is a tad high to ensure proper engagement, but still no problems or shudder. Pics to come of the rocks/hills if I haven't deleted them...

That is what bothers me. No one else seems to be having what I seem to be having.

I seem to have what I think is shudder and mine is barely being used. Now it doesn't have the clutch slipping and RPMs jumping up just a "skidding" feeling.

It feels almost like brakes slipping or ABS engaging (without pedal feedback).

It only does it when starting off climbing on a hill from a dead stop. I have only tried it in Low Range, I have never driven it in Hi Range for anything other than road driving.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Wish you could come take a ride with me in mine some time. After seeing what i put mine through, you probably won't have a worry in the world about how you treat yours.

If you lived in the armpit of the state, like me, instead of the nice part I would.

Do you ever feel anything that resembles ABS vibration or brake slipping when starting off going up hill?

 

[Delton]

That is what bothers me. No one else seems to be having what I seem to be having.

I seem to have what I think is shudder and mine is barely being used. Now it doesn't have the clutch slipping and RPMs jumping up just a "skidding" feeling.

It feels almost like brakes slipping or ABS engaging (without pedal feedback).

It only does it when starting off climbing on a hill from a dead stop. I have only tried it in Low Range, I have never driven it in Hi Range for anything other than road driving.

Yes we have all felt that. If I feathered the throttle to take off, mine would shudder and act like you're describing. It's gotten alot smoother with usage, but it would still do it. The way I take off there is no shudder and it doesn't snap your head back.

 

[Delton]

If you lived in the armpit of the state, like me, instead of the nice part I would.

Do you ever feel anything that resembles ABS vibration or brake slipping when starting off going up hill?

Where do you live again?

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Yes we have all felt that. If I feathered the throttle to take off, mine would shudder and act like you're describing. It's gotten alot smoother with usage, but it would still do it. The way I take off there is no shudder and it doesn't snap your head back.

Cool, what is the secret?

Mine does it even if I stab the throttle pretty good, (well for me anyway) and when I stab the throttle it does jerk you back pretty good.