Talon 4 seat steering rack?

[Sheetmetalfab]

Looking at the specs the turning radius of the 4 seat talon x4 matches the 2 seat talon R.

Suppose they used the R steering rack in the 4 seater?

(Wishing the parts fische was available)

 

[Admin]

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Pretty sure it will use the X rack. The extra wheelbase of the 4 hurts turning radius.

 

[JimmyTalon]

Another interesting question is:
Could a person put a rack from an X, in an R, and get a tighter turn radius in the R?

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Maybe. CV is the limitation with the axles pushed forwards on the R. You'll max the cv out with less angle then the X.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Maybe. CV is the limitation with the axles pushed forwards on the R. You'll max the cv out with less angle then the X.

On the flip side reputable companies sell a bracket lift for the talon R that basically puts more angle on the cv’s........I don’t know how badly that shortens the cv joint life.


Potentially might be ok with the talon X rack ‍♂️

Or it could snap parts like a cheap lawn chair.

 

[jasond]

I was just looking into this exact topic and Rocky Mountain ATV has a fiche available you can study.

This is what I see for the R when I look at the steering box and rack part numbers:

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These are the steering box and rack part numbers for the X:

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I must say I'm a bit stumped just based on what I've seen. I also checked the EPS unit part numbers and they match. I was hoping to find a steering stop of some sort on the R, but it doesn't appear to have one.

If someone figures this out I'd love to know what the difference is between the two.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I was just looking into this exact topic and Rocky Mountain ATV has a fiche available you can study.

View attachment 144412

This is what I see for the R when I look at the steering box and rack part numbers:

View attachment 144413
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View attachment 144416

These are the steering box and rack part numbers for the X:

View attachment 144414
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View attachment 144415

I must say I'm a bit stumped just based on what I've seen. I also checked the EPS unit part numbers and they match. I was hoping to find a steering stop of some sort on the R, but it doesn't appear to have one.

If someone figures this out I'd love to know what the difference is between the two.

One number difference in the “steering gear” part number.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

One number difference in the “steering gear” part number.

I bet it’s an internal steering stop in the “R” rack and pinion that makes the X turn sharper.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Here's the specs in the manual. It looks like the rack does not travel as far on the R. The downside is the R with the extended wheelbase puts about 5 deg more angle on the CV joint since the axle is pointing forward an additional 2" or so. So CV angles between the machines will be almost identical at full lock. With the X wheel turning angle at 38 deg inward, the CV is probably around 40 deg since the axles also points forward on them too. 40 deg is a lot. The additional width and wheelbase also hurts turning radius with the same wheel angle.

 

[my99svt]

I have very little turning issues. Last weekend I was riding in some tight trails with an X3 and a few Pioneers. Only once did I have to back up where they didn't. Just power around the turns!

 

[jasond]

I have very little turning issues. Last weekend I was riding in some tight trails with an X3 and a few Pioneers. Only once did I have to back up where they didn't. Just power around the turns!

I wouldn't call it a deal-breaker, but it is an inconvenience and is definitely noticeably worse than my XP1K I had. I frequently am doing 3-point turns in areas where my buddies are able to navigate normally. Like you mentioned, when it's possible I'll steer with the skinny pedal, but usually there's not enough room for that.

If there ends up being a reliable way to achieve the X (or close to the X) turning radius on the R model I'll 100% go for it.

 

[jasond]

Reviving this thread.

I was out in the woods this weekend clearing some new trails and got into several tight spots doing the Austin Powers maneuver to turn around. Again, it’s not the end of the world, but I’m still looking for a way to fix the issue.

I read through my service manual today and didn’t see a specific difference noted in the X and R racks so I’m still not 100% positive what physically allows the X to turn sharper.

Does the X have more teeth in the rack? Is there a steering stop on the R? @HondaTech any chance you could chime in on this topic?

 

[HondaTech]

I'm still convinced it's partially due to the added width as well as something internal in the steering box. Haven't had a chance to look inside either steering box and probably never will.

Doing some parts fiche digging the only part in the steering box diagram that apparently isn't shared by the R and X is the housing itself. The rack and the pinion are the same part number as are the seals,clips,etc. I'll have to take a closer look when i get back to work next week and see if there are any discernible differences in the housing itself.

I did find the Live Valve has a different box assembly listed for it, perhaps dealing with the steering sensor housing. The pinion shaft is different as well, but looking at the diagram it appears to be because of an additional clip? They also forgo a pinion seal dust cover for the same reason.

The Talons share a lot of the steering components with the P1K and even the power steering unit is shared with the 1000 and 700. The linkage is a mix of 1000 stuff as well.

 

[Smitty335]

Reviving this thread.

I was out in the woods this weekend clearing some new trails and got into several tight spots doing the Austin Powers maneuver to turn around. Again, it’s not the end of the world, but I’m still looking for a way to fix the issue.

I read through my service manual today and didn’t see a specific difference noted in the X and R racks so I’m still not 100% positive what physically allows the X to turn sharper.

Does the X have more teeth in the rack? Is there a steering stop on the R? @HondaTech any chance you could chime in on this topic?

I would guess shorter well base?

 

[jasond]

I’m sure the difference in wheelbase contributes, but there’s a marked difference you’ll notice if you get the opportunity to ride both models. That’s what makes me think there’s something that physically restricts the lock-to-lock distance in the rack & pinion for the R models.

Thanks for looking into this @HondaTech. Looking forward to hearing what you find, if anything.

 

[JTW]

@Ragnar406